Just rented a new shop, need tools!

L

Lucky Bob

Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
956
Hey all, I finally found a suitable work space here in Brooklyn, and want to take advantage of no longer having to work in my livingroom! I don't need to pinch every penny, but the rent on this shop took out a good bit of my savings already. (Aside: screw NYC, even though I love it for other reasons.)

So, so far I have a 1"x30" belt/5" disc sander combo and an 8" drill press, both from HF.

Bearing in mind that my interest is in EDC and kitchen knives, with maybe my own HT and/or folders down the road, I'm looking at getting, in descending order of importance:

  • Better belt grinder! I was going to get the Craftsman 2"x42" as a moderate step up, but it seems that they don't make it any more, so I figured I'd jump to the Grizzly G1015 2"x72" grinder ($615 shipped). 1HP, 8" contact wheel, nice big flat platen, buffer arbor. Problem is, fixed speed, and a bit more than I'd like to spend for what I fully expect to be an intermediate step. Don't think I can justify $1500 for a variable-speed grinder right now.
  • Band saw. I was looking at a 9" benchtop (from Grizzly again, $210 shipped) or a portable bandsaw ($140 from HF, $200 from Grizzly) for semi-permanent mounting ($50-125, depending on which mount), but girlfriend's dad's machinist friend apparently says I'd need something heftier for steel, like the G0830 ($490 shipped) from Grizzly. Given that I don't expect to be working on steel any thicker than .15", do I really need something that beefy?? The size capacity on any of them will be fine for handle blanks as far as I can tell.
  • ...
  • Down the line, I want to buy a tabletop mill, and even further down the line I want to convert it to CNC. But not today, so I should stop researching it!

So, anybody have any advice/thoughts? Anything I'm missing or on which I could be getting significantly better value?

Thanks!
 
The grizzly is def gong to be better then a 2 x 42, but I personally would buy once cry once and go for the VFD 2 x 72. You can save some cash and find a motor on Ebay and there are cheap VFD's out there. The HF 9" band saw is going to be useless for metal go with the portaband and set it up so you can use it vertical. I have one and roughing out profiles is a breeze.
 
if handy with tools and can find a motor you coudl cheaply build a KMG type grinder and use step pullys till you could upgradde to VS
as for a saw portaban and swag table seem to be well liked as well as the 4x6 class bandsaws
 
Buy once cry once on a 2x72. That doesn't mean you have to get a TW-90. But in the price range you're talking, an Oregon Blade Maker frame from their ebay store, and a 3ph motor and VFD from ebay or automation direct will only be a little more outlay than the Grizzly grinder and you'll have variable speed from the start.

So much of what we do is done on the 2x72 it makes sense to get one that suits your needs from the beginning, even before other nice to haves like a bandsaw or disk grinder. With a variable speed 2x72 and flat platen, a drill press and some files, you can make just about any knife.

Your knife grinder, especially if you do stock removal only, is the most important capital equipment asset in your shop. Everything else is process improvement. Swing for the fence when it comes to the grinder, even if that means an OBM frame and used VFD/motor, because that 3/4 wheel 2x72 with variable speed will outperform every 2 wheel or smaller belt grinder available.

A $70 Harbor Freight portaband will do just about anything a knife maker could ask a bandsaw to do, a table conversion makes it easier, other than fine scroll cutting of concave radii. But with a real grinder, you don't need to saw fine concave radii. I have two cutting lasers available to me and I still cut out profiles with my HF portaband quite often.
 
A 2x72 grinder with variable speed is the single most important tool for a knife maker. The smaller belts cost almost as much as the ones for a 2x72 but only last half as long. Belts are by far the most consumable item for knife makers. I would cut out blades with a dremel or even a hacksaw before going back to a smaller grinder.
 
First thing I would put in the shop is good locks and deadbolts, a security system, and a very loud alarm claxton. If there are windows, add security bars. You know where you live and what the odds of a break-in are. If you don't do this first, you might as well just leave the doors unlocked at night.

If you plan on making knives for sale, get a good grinder with attachments. While a Grizzly will save you a few bucks, it can only do so much. VS is really a good idea.

A tabletop mill is good for very few knifemaking tasks, unless all you do is folders. It would be better to get a heavy duty drill press. A mill may be needed later on if you get into production work, but few knifemakers really need one.

A portaband with a SWAG table mount is a good choice for an entry level metal bandsaw. A 10" Ryobi or other wood bandsaw will do most general handle tasks. The fairly cheap 4X6 HF bandsaws do just fine for a knife shop. They run about $250 regular price, but with the always available 20% discount they run, it is less than $200.

A HT oven is nice, but you can sent the blades out for HT until you decide you need to do it yourself.

One major thing you didn't mention is dust removal. You should get or make a good cyclone style dust collector and put ports at the various equipment. Also get a long hose to use to vacuum the floor and bench tops.

Ask if 3 phase power is available in the shop. That will allow using cheap 3 phase motors and a VFD to run things. VS drill press, VS band saw, VS grinders, etc.
 
There are more options for semi-DIY 2x72 grinders now than there ever has been, and similarly for wheels, motors and VFDs. You don't necessarily have to spend the $1500 up front to get a decent setup that can be upgraded as you go along, but $1500 will certainly open up some options. That said, there are plenty of options in the sub $1000 range for the basic frames for tool arm style grinders. Look for used motors and VFDs. Stacy also makes a good point: If your shop has 3 phase power available already, the 3phase in, 3 phase out vfds can be found pretty cheap, vs single phase in, 3 phase out.

Otherwise, you can get a Chinese (open frame) vfd for about $100-$130, and then it's just a matter of finding a suitable 3 phase motor for the type of grinder you're putting it on. I've seen used motors in good condition for anywhere from $40 to $150, or you can get an IronHorse brand motor brand new for something like $150, IIRC. Slap that on something like an oregonblademaker chassis for around $600-$650 or so, and you've got a pretty decent variable speed machine with flat platen for about $1000, give or take some minor accessories for mounting and wiring.
 
Random questions if you don't mind?

1: Did you get the shop just for knife making?
2: Is it expensive enough that you have to sell knives to afford it?
3: What power does it have?
4: How big is it?
5: Is it a secure building?
6: Are thy ok with you using it as a shop, smoke, fire and sparks?
 
So, to answer in aggregate:
  • Security, safety, and cost are covered, don't worry about it.
  • The workshop doesn't currently have 208/3ph, but I've reached out to the super to see if he can run another new circuit in addition to the 120V one.
  • Looks like I'm going for a portaband on a SWAG, which is fine.
  • I'll look into a DIY grinder, especially if I can get 3ph power, but I'm much more interested in making knives than grinders...
 
My advice for a "DIY" meaning put it together grinder would be to get one of the Wilmont LB1000 packages and shop the motor and vfd for cheap online, then source wheels, platens and all that jazz from places like knifegrinderparts.com I can attest that the grizzly grinder will quickly become frustrating in it's limitations. It's not really built to manage the types of tolerances knife makers will typically expect from it.
 
Hindsight is always 20-20...if you're approaching this from a business perspective a 2 X 72 Grinder is the biggest asset to your knife making. Starting out with a machine that can't do all the little thing needed will become frustrating. From the above posts it seems people have tried lesser grinders and are making suggestions to help you become a successful maker. Personally I've built 2 grinders along with my purchased KMG (yes I built 2 using the KMG to grind my parts). I wanted to make knives right away but I took the advice to get a good piece of equipment...20-20 vision best investment was 2X72!
 
So are you going to run this as a (a) business with an expectation of making a living; (b) a hobby business; or (c) a hobby workshop? If (a) I think you've made a grave mistake of starting a knife business before even knowing what equipment is needed to make one. If you don't know what equipment you need then you must not have made any knives before, and I'm afraid you're going to have a steep and expensive learning curve.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 
When I said "DIY" grinder, I'm talking about bolting a base to a bench and attaching the motor. A lot of kits now days just need wheels or and/or a motor installed, which shouldn't take more than an hour or so, including wiring the switch and cords up.

That said, I can't really look at it as an 'either/or, knives vs grinders'. Sure, you can buy a mediocre 1x30, 2x42, or even a cheap 2x72 that comes right out of the box ready to go, but you're going to likely be limited to inferior adjustment (if any), single speed, and poor construction. You'll be fighting every knife you make, all to save an hour or two worth of assembly on a machine you're going use more than any other tool on every knife you make.

Even if it takes a month to build a quality grinder, it's worth it over something that's not going to perform as well. It's a ONE time investment that will arguably last the rest of your knife making career, or at least until you can sell enough knives to upgrade again. That said, we're just talking about throwing a motor and wheels on, and making sure everything lines up. That shouldn't be more than an hour or two.
 
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