Review K02: The Microbevel King and the 2500 Rule

wade7575 said:
then I got a 800 grit has another grit rating on the box and it's the same rating system so I'm pretty sure nothing is getting confused the 800 grit has 28/20 written on the box the stone came in and the reason I'm pretty certain nothing has been confused is because my Gritomatic 1000 has 14/10 written on the blank and thy do not offer the 800 grit
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I'm sure 800 is a mistake. 28/20 = F360 = J500
 
Wade, below is the list of all options for Poltava bonded CBN. What would be a set of your dream?

2/1, 3/2, 5/3, 7/5, 10/7, 14/10, 20/14, 28/20, 40/28, 50/40, 63/50, 80/63, 100/80, 125/100, 160/125, 200/160, 250/200, 315/250
 
Can put a conversion down for each grit in the Jis scale that would be helpful for me and others I'm sure.

Gritomatic said:
Wade, below is the list of all options for Poltava bonded CBN. What would be a set of your dream?

2/1, 3/2, 5/3, 7/5, 10/7, 14/10, 20/14, 28/20, 40/28, 50/40, 63/50, 80/63, 100/80, 125/100, 160/125, 200/160, 250/200, 315/250
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2/1 = 8000-12000
3/2 = 5000-6000
5/3 = 3000-4000
7/5 = 2000-2500
10/7 = 1200
14/10 = 1000
20/14 = 700-800
28/20 = 500-600
40/28 = 360-400
50/40 = 280
63/50 = 240
80/63 = 180
100/80 = 150
125/100 = 120
160/125 = 100
200/160 = 80
250/200 = 70
315/250 = 60
 
Gritomatic said:
2/1 = 8000-12000
3/2 = 5000-6000
5/3 = 3000-4000
7/5 = 2000-2500
10/7 = 1200
14/10 = 1000
20/14 = 700-800
28/20 = 500-600
40/28 = 360-400
50/40 = 280
63/50 = 240
80/63 = 180
100/80 = 150
125/100 = 120
160/125 = 100
200/160 = 80
250/200 = 70
315/250 = 60
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Oooh are those fractions just the micron sizes of the abrasive particles? So technically the next finest in the series could be something like "1/0.5" which would be 12,000-24,000?
 
From what I read somewhere yes those are just the particle sizes in microns,from what I read it works this way the smaller number is what micron size the stone is supposed to be and the bigger number is what maximum size of grit is supposed to be in the stone witch I can understand because when your dealing with stuff in microns I'm sure your not going to get every bigger particle out of the mix.

For example the 2/1 for the 8000 12000 stone means that it is supposed to be made up of 1 micron particles the most but can contain a maximum of 2 micron particles as well but not as many those are the ones that slipped into the mix.
 
wade7575 said:
If you are looking at getting some really nice water stones don't get in to big of a rush I just got a Sigma Power Select II 6 10 and 13K stones and a Suehiro G8 8K stone,I'm goint to try and get around to using them sometime this week and see how they work and report my findings on the forum
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The G8 is a great stone!
 
I have not tried the G8 yet but I hope it works good for my needs I mainly want it as a next step in polishing edge's instead of using Shapton Glass stones I just don't for them at all.
 
I tried my Sigma Power Select II 6K 10K 13K and Suehiro G8 stone tonight,I tried sharpening a Gayle Bradley folder with M4 steel blade I started off with my 120 grit metallic bonded CBN and worked way threw some of those grits until I finished with the 8K CBN I then switched to the Sigma Power 6K what I was for is that it would remove a lot of the scratch's left by the CBN witch is common for them to do that,the Sigma Power stone seemed to work pretty good and removed metal fairly well but when I moved to the Suehiro G8 stone it seemed to work remove metal even fast then the 6K but at the same time not being so aggressive as to leave a lot scratch's or anything like that it seemed to do a really good job and I could have easily stopped there I then next moved onto the 10 and 13K Sigma Power stones.The 10K removed metal as well but not very much at all you could see metal filings on the surface of the stone but not a lot and that's what I would expect to see the 13K did not show any signs of metal on the surface of the stone but when I tested the edge after using it there was slight difference in sharpness how I test is with a thin peace of paper and I push it into the blade and I can feel how easily the paper cuts from 1 grit to the next.

I then moved onto stropping the edge with .10 and .25 CBN those were the only strops I had loaded up with emulsion and did not have time to load any other's up,I would have to say the only stone I would get rid of would be is the 13K Sigma Power stone it did not do enough for my liking as far as adding sharpness I think a person would better using in this order a Sigma Power Select II 6K then the G8 followed next by the 10K Sigma Power then followed by the Suehiro 10K and 20K stones witch are fantastic stones that a rock hard and don't seem like their doing anything at all when you are using them but they do help a lot more then one would think,with some steels I find it almost pointless to strop after using the Suehiro 10K stone I have it should also be mentioned don't be turned off the price of a Suehiro 10 15 or 20K stone they may cost a pretty penny but they will outlast you and I'm not kidding when I say that you will most likely hand them down to your children and they will most likely end up doing the same.

Here is a picture I took of the edge there are still very minor and not deep at all scratch's on the edge and if I would have used nothing but water stones from the start I'm pretty sure it would have turned out to be a perfect mirror polish.

I also sharpened this knife at 15dps and it is very sharp and if you cut paper with it the blade just slides threw and you barely feel any drag at all.

28vWZrc.jpg
 
Beansandcarrots look into for cleaning your water stones if you have any that clogged with metal particles,they work better then a nagura stone and they remove less stone then a nagura and also seem to work faster as well and there's no need for Bar Keepers Friend with these around,they are made from rubber and have a lite grit in them and wear very well to,it's the medium one you want I told a few people about them and everyone so far say's they love them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-k...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
 
wade7575 said:
Beansandcarrots look into for cleaning your water stones if you have any that clogged with metal particles,they work better then a nagura stone and they remove less stone then a nagura and also seem to work faster as well and there's no need for Bar Keepers Friend with these around,they are made from rubber and have a lite grit in them and wear very well to,it's the medium one you want I told a few people about them and everyone so far say's they love them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Japanese-k...e=STRK:MEBIDX:IT&_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649
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Yeah, right now I usually use a worn out diamond EP stone, but I gotta say, I have yet to run into any loading issues on any of my stones
 
I know Shapton Glass can load a little but not enough to be a major problem,I wish I would have know about those rust eraser's back when I was using the Chosera stones with my KME I always found the Chosera stones would not load up but the would glaze over and I was not aware of that and could not figure out why they would cut so fast when brand new but so slow the next time I would use them and the third time was pretty much impossible to remove any metal with them.
 
wade7575 said:
I know Shapton Glass can load a little but not enough to be a major problem,I wish I would have know about those rust eraser's back when I was using the Chosera stones with my KME I always found the Chosera stones would not load up but the would glaze over and I was not aware of that and could not figure out why they would cut so fast when brand new but so slow the next time I would use them and the third time was pretty much impossible to remove any metal with them.
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yeah man, I'm not a fan of waterstones on guided systems. Like, my SG ones, I find I am constantly spraying them down because the water just drips right off of them because they're angled and upside down, right, so they're dripping swarf all over the damn place, I'm spraying water everywhere, and if you didn't keep the stones soaked, the mud would glaze the surface and they'd quit cutting. Not a fun time.
 
I have never found a major problem with the Shaptons Glass glazing what I do to keep them wet is just keep a small dish of water beside me and dip my finger in and flip the stone over and spread the water onto the stone,I find the Chosera's are horrible stones for being upside down on a guided system for not holding water all.
You should look into getting a Nubatama 1K 3K in platinum Series and a 6K Bamboo they seem to hold water pretty well and cut pretty good to the 6K is a bit slower but a decent stone as well you can get them from Ken Schwartz and he cuts the around 9mm so you get a pretty stone as well,they are designed to release their abrasive so you are always working with fresh sharp abrasive.
 
wade7575 said:
I have never found a major problem with the Shaptons Glass glazing what I do to keep them wet is just keep a small dish of water beside me and dip my finger in and flip the stone over and spread the water onto the stone,I find the Chosera's are horrible stones for being upside down on a guided system for not holding water all.
You should look into getting a Nubatama 1K 3K in platinum Series and a 6K Bamboo they seem to hold water pretty well and cut pretty good to the 6K is a bit slower but a decent stone as well you can get them from Ken Schwartz and he cuts the around 9mm so you get a pretty stone as well,they are designed to release their abrasive so you are always working with fresh sharp abrasive.
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Honestly, if I get anymore K02 stones, it’s gonna be the Metallic Bonded CBN. Those things are just too badass. I’ll leave waterstones to my freehanding
 
The one stone you may want to look at in a water stone is the Suehiro G8 stone it is a very good water stone that performed decently on M4 and is made of Silicon Carbide and you may to use that as a finishing stone.
 
Beansandcarrots said:
We're taking this thing up to 1k on the Edge Pro stones, which is about 7 microns, which is approximately 2k JIS.
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Respectfully, that's not quite accurate. The Edge Pro stones are FEPA F graded; F 1000 is 4.5μ ± 0.8 average, which puts it between 2500 and 3000 in the Japanese JIS grading. However FEPA F has tighter grading than JIS so it is most comparable to J3000.

f-grit-sizes-bonded-micro-3-fepa.jpg


By the way the Edge Pro 120 is not bad, though it is messy. However to get it working you need to open up the stone by conditioning it on free SiC grit, around #50, and you may still need a heavy hand but nothing outrageous. Even the 220 has its use: soft steel in junk knives, though it earns curses on anything harder.
 
Mr.Wizard said:
Respectfully, that's not quite accurate. The Edge Pro stones are FEPA F graded; F 1000 is 4.5μ ± 0.8 average, which puts it between 2500 and 3000 in the Japanese JIS grading. However FEPA F has tighter grading than JIS so it is most comparable to J3000.

f-grit-sizes-bonded-micro-3-fepa.jpg


By the way the Edge Pro 120 is not bad, though it is messy. However to get it working you need to open up the stone by conditioning it on free SiC grit, around #50, and you may still need a heavy hand but nothing outrageous. Even the 220 has its use: soft steel in junk knives, though it earns curses on anything harder.
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Thank you for the specific answer. I used the grand unified grit scale at the time. I am not sure if it has changed since. Anyway, hence approximately, right? I just needed to get in the ballpark. I am not concerned about the difference between 2k and 3k personally, although some people may be.

Dude, I just couldn't like the 120 and 220. I always had to fiddle with the god damn stones and it seemed like sometimes they "turned on" and other times they just would work for me. I dressed with SiC, I lapped with diamond plate. I just didn't like 'em, compared to the 220 Shapton Glass, at least. Now that is a proper stone.
 
RadialBladeworks RadialBladeworks I admit to being pedantic about grit; certainly the difference between different product lines in greater than the difference between 2k/3k. Regarding the stock EP stones I am not trying to convince anyone to choose them over others, only offer a way to get use out of them.
 
Beansandcarrots said:
Quickie review: 9/10 functional sharpening, misses a point for difficulty on extreme polish cosmetic bevels. Set your edge, jack the angle up and set a microbevel, boom, done, sharp as hell.

I am going to use the K02 to reprofile the 220 Druid by Steel Will.

At .20" thick, the blade stock is pushing the limits of the clamps, but I suspect you could still fit .25" blades in there. Don't quote me on that though; it's just a guess.
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OK, ok lets back up a bit there. I didn't read all this, and I love long posts with lots of details that I can really get into, but . . .
That whole set up (the design of this diving board being passed off as a knife sharpening jig offends my basic engineering sensibilities).
Boing, flex, bounce; are these characteristics not counter productive when our goal is a rigid fixturing of a bit of metal to be machined to a precise and critical angle ?

Here . . . at least put one of these under the bottom side of the blade near the edge so we have a hope in hell of keeping the angle by preventing those long thin clamps hanging out in space from flexing up and down.

LINK to a photo of a support (there are inexpensive versions of this out there) (heck a block of wood with a drywall screw in it would suffice).
Sure the Edge Pro is just a boring old bit of plastic without the cool machined metal parts (and I'm all about cool machined metal parts (add some wrinkle finish paint and I am getting all disgustingly wet and drippy) . . .
but at least that boring old bit of plastic supports the blade where it must be supported to create highly effective apexes. Micro bevel ? I never use them on a knife; the Edge Pro debures and produces hair whittling edges without a micro and with out a strop.
 
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