Ka-bar fighting/utility knife problems/ new grind??

BlackenedSteel said:
1) I cannot post pictures on this site
2) I'm sorry you feel I'm lying, but the upper grinds on the top of the clip point are a half centimeter off
3) no, ka-bar will not refund/ trade and yes I have talked to them, check other posts
4) I expected genuine help/advice from this site, but I can see now what kind of people really use this forum
5) forget everything I ever said, I have come to the conclusion that I will simply take my time and money elsewhere than ka-bar. They have lost my respect as a blade manufacturing company and I'll just not bring them up anymore. Thank you for your few seconds of time
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Posting pictures on this forum is super easy for anyone. The tiniest amount of time and attention and you will find easy instructions on how to post pictures. If you can't figure out how to do that one simple thing how can we be sure about the rest of the things you say?

So Amazon would not take your return? How is that? They are very good about returns. Again, see my above statement. Things don't ad up here.
 
My collection of MK-IIs is hardly exhaustive, but Silvey's edition of Cole does not show a single WWII MK-II without a flat between the bottom of the fuller and the bevel. The size of that flat varied by manufacturer, as did the size of the flat above the fuller. In that respect they departed from the Marble's Ideal and the WW II-era Western knives that are closest to the MK-II.

The idea behind the design of the Ideal was to break suction along the flats when cutting thicker materials (meat - it was a hunting knife).

The square corners at the tang/blade junction is a weakness (stress-riser), but so is steel that is not an inch thick. Not radiusing the corners speeds production. The knife proved to be strong enough for its intended uses (combat -utility) and for its most common use - opening ration cans. The more common 225Q, known for being rugged, had the same design feature.
 
BlackenedSteel said:
YOUR knife had a strong tang. An older model made with actual care. The new model they are producing is not nearly as well made and if you think otherwise, buy the new model blade and see for yourself. And I did try "doing something about it" neither Amazon.com nor KA-BAR will replace/trade/refund the knife.
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The WW2 era blades were not really "made with care". They were made as fast as humanly possible to get as many out in as short a period of time as physically possible. That's why the specs changed from "round, threaded peened over pommel-tang" to "round, unthreaded, peened over pommel tang" to "rectangular, peened over pommel tang" to "rectangual, pinned, no peening pommel tang" - each change made it easier, cheaper and faster to produce a usable knife. The stamps went from "on the blade, both sides" to "on the guard". The guards could be stamped as they were stamped out, saving the time it took to stamp the blade, turn it over and stamp the blade again. The pommel pieces themselves changed from the heavier 3/8" thick pieces of steel to 1/4" thick. Saved 1/3 the material, could make 3 pommels instead of 2 from the same amount of metal. "Made cheaper by government specs." The rectangular pommel-tang pommels are stronger than the original threaded ones. The threads weakened the pommel connection and they broke off.

I HAVE compared the WW2 era blades to the "modern" ones. I have over 50 WW2 vintage Kabar 1219C2/USN-MK2s, over 30 Camillus WW2 versions, 19 PAL and Robeson versions. Then I have another 30+ Viet Nam Era and later "modern versions" from every US manufacturer that made them under government contract. Every single one of the "modern" versions have been built just as solidly, if not more-so, than any WW2 version. The MSI version is not very well finished, looks like poop, but is strong as an ox. I have a couple of dozen Kabar wanna-bees made in various countries. Some of them are good. Some are caca.

The variation from 1 WW2 version to the next is about the same as from 1 modern version to the next. Every single one of these knives from WW2 to present is finished by hand. There are going to be differences between any 2. They are made by humans. I do not include the wanna-bees in any comparison.

Could they be made perfectly, exactly identical and perfectly lined up every time.

Yes.

But you couldn't afford it.

No clue as to why Amazon won't refund. That's on them.

You didn't buy it at retail from KABAR, so to expect KABAR to refund your full purchase price is ludicrous. KABAR sold it at WHOLESALE to whoever sold it to you, whether Amazon themselves or one of their jobbers. IF KABAR sold it to the shipper. I've never heard of a GRAY forest green Kabar. Maybe you just got a "Kabar-style" knife that wasn't made by Kabar. I see those on fleabay all the time. That's why we need pics of the knife and/or box.
 
Here are some pics of some vintage WW2 USMC-type KA-BAR knives. And as you can see, the grind on them is so high up it practically meets with the fuller.

So it's nothing new under the sun.

http://www.quanonline.com/military/military_reference/fighting_knives/data/kabar_ana.jpg
http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attac...d-story-my-marine-friend-john-johns-kabar.jpg
http://www.knifethursday.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/WW2-Marine-Kabar-Knife-001-570x405.jpg
http://www.marines.be/images/collection/kabar/kabar2.jpg
https://c2.staticflickr.com/2/1428/4734426786_046d050756_z.jpg
http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e202/a6skin9/1030-1.jpg
http://www.warrelics.eu/forum/attac...0d1286816399-genuine-ww2-era-usmc-kabar-6.jpg
http://7f707af5cce54c2d5f77-e3b87be...9765634cd6ff9e5b085da19619/a/m/amu4101__1.jpg
 
zzyzzogeton said:
The WW2 era blades were not really "made with care". They were made as fast as humanly possible to get as many out in as short a period of time as physically possible. That's why the specs changed from "round, threaded peened over pommel-tang" to "round, unthreaded, peened over pommel tang" to "rectangular, peened over pommel tang" to "rectangual, pinned, no peening pommel tang" - each change made it easier, cheaper and faster to produce a usable knife. The stamps went from "on the blade, both sides" to "on the guard". The guards could be stamped as they were stamped out, saving the time it took to stamp the blade, turn it over and stamp the blade again. The pommel pieces themselves changed from the heavier 3/8" thick pieces of steel to 1/4" thick. Saved 1/3 the material, could make 3 pommels instead of 2 from the same amount of metal. "Made cheaper by government specs." The rectangular pommel-tang pommels are stronger than the original threaded ones. The threads weakened the pommel connection and they broke off.

I HAVE compared the WW2 era blades to the "modern" ones. I have over 50 WW2 vintage Kabar 1219C2/USN-MK2s, over 30 Camillus WW2 versions, 19 PAL and Robeson versions. Then I have another 30+ Viet Nam Era and later "modern versions" from every US manufacturer that made them under government contract. Every single one of the "modern" versions have been built just as solidly, if not more-so, than any WW2 version. The MSI version is not very well finished, looks like poop, but is strong as an ox. I have a couple of dozen Kabar wanna-bees made in various countries. Some of them are good. Some are caca.

The variation from 1 WW2 version to the next is about the same as from 1 modern version to the next. Every single one of these knives from WW2 to present is finished by hand. There are going to be differences between any 2. They are made by humans. I do not include the wanna-bees in any comparison.

Could they be made perfectly, exactly identical and perfectly lined up every time.

Yes.

But you couldn't afford it.

No clue as to why Amazon won't refund. That's on them.

You didn't buy it at retail from KABAR, so to expect KABAR to refund your full purchase price is ludicrous. KABAR sold it at WHOLESALE to whoever sold it to you, whether Amazon themselves or one of their jobbers. IF KABAR sold it to the shipper. I've never heard of a GRAY forest green Kabar. Maybe you just got a "Kabar-style" knife that wasn't made by Kabar. I see those on fleabay all the time. That's why we need pics of the knife and/or box.
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This has nothing to do with blacked steels problem, BUT HOW/WEAR CAN I BUY A VIETNAM USMC KNIFE?! I want one sooo bad but flea bay ain't got poopoo from what I've found: (
 
youknowwhatimsayin said:
This has nothing to do with blacked steels problem, BUT HOW/WEAR CAN I BUY A VIETNAM USMC KNIFE?! I want one sooo bad but flea bay ain't got poopoo from what I've found: (
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Ebay has a number of auctions for knives advertised as vietnam-era KA-BARs. They're just asking a great deal more than you might want to pay.
 
Did you buy a knife sold by Amazon, or a third party vendor on the Amazon site? There are multiple forms of purchase on the Amazon site including sales by Amazon, third party vendors, fulfilled by Amazon, and vendors whose sales are governed by the Amazon warranty.
In some cases, you are governed by the third party vendor guarantee, not Amazon directly. This can be a big deal if you are buying a $3000 camera.
 
youknowwhatimsayin said:
This has nothing to do with blacked steels problem, BUT HOW/WEAR CAN I BUY A VIETNAM USMC KNIFE?! I want one sooo bad but flea bay ain't got poopoo from what I've found: (
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Excuse me ahead of time if I'm replying to our question too literally. If your looking for this type knife, (1219C2), made during the Vietnam War era, marked "U.S.M.C."; than you would be hunting for a unicorn.
If a veteran from the Vietnam War had a U.S.M.C. marked knife in that time period it would have been a knife made during the WW2 era. It was still possible to find such an item still about in military supply at least as late as the 1970's although rare, or it may have been passed to the veteran by a friend or family member from an earlier time period.
 
A unicorn would actually be easier to find...

If you want a Vietnam USMC without paying a fortune, you're gonna have to fake it. Get a run of the mill USMC off the market, distress the leather, darken the leather, and accelerate the wear on the blade's finish until it's mostly bare metal.
 
Dag naddit. I don't really care if the knife was carried into battle I just would love to have one that was made around World War II or Vietnam
 
Why settle for a mere knife. On ePrey you can find
USMC Marines 1942 Leather Neck Tanto Combat Sword Knife Full Tang
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:rolleyes:

Want a safe play? Get a Cattaraugus 225Q. They were only made eduring WW II and were carried by Army and USMC combat troops.
 
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Hmm, an interesting thread. I was in the USMC during the Korean War but never had one of these knives until my son gave me one a few years ago. Since I had nothing to compare it to I didn't realize that the edge not going all the way up to the fuller wasn't the original design. I can't see what the new design hurts, however. It looks as though it will make the blade a bit stronger and the actual edge less likely to chip.

Subsequent to acquiring this knife I bought two of the smaller versions (with 5 1/4 inch blades). In those the edge does go directly up to the fuller. The actual width of the edge, interestingly is about the same as that of the full sized Ka-Bar.

In my case there is nothing wrong with my Ka-Bar. My edge is as sharp as any of my other knives so I have no complaints.

I was thinking of getting another Ka-Bar USMC fighting knife at some point, but if the Ka-Bar company is having QC problems, I can put that off.

Lawrence
 
Silvanus said:
They stopped sharpening the top swedge for legal reasons. In some areas it was considered a "dagger" and therefore illegal.
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Do you know when they stopped sharpening the swedge. My son was helping a lady after her husband died and she gave him the unused USMC fighting knife that my son subsequently gave to me but I have no idea when it was manufactured. The date the quit sharpening the swedge could narrow that down a bit for me -- if you happen to know.

Lawrence
 
Lawrence Helm said:
Hmm, an interesting thread. I was in the USMC during the Korean War but never had one of these knives until my son gave me one a few years ago. Since I had nothing to compare it to I didn't realize that the edge not going all the way up to the fuller wasn't the original design. I can't see what the new design hurts, however. It looks as though it will make the blade a bit stronger and the actual edge less likely to chip.

Subsequent to acquiring this knife I bought two of the smaller versions (with 5 1/4 inch blades). In those the edge does go directly up to the fuller. The actual width of the edge, interestingly is about the same as that of the full sized Ka-Bar.

In my case there is nothing wrong with my Ka-Bar. My edge is as sharp as any of my other knives so I have no complaints.

I was thinking of getting another Ka-Bar USMC fighting knife at some point, but if the Ka-Bar company is having QC problems, I can put that off.

Lawrence
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Herllo, Marine.

If we use pictures and can point, labels do not matter as much. When we use only text, labels matter.

The "edge" is the frst part to contact the material being cut, and nothing else. AKA "cutting edge."

The "pimary bevel" the the part ground at an angle that connects the edge to the flat of the blade.

The issue at hand was whether the primary bevel runs from the edge to the fuller (groove ground or forged into the flat) or whether some flat is left between the top of the primary bevel and the bottom of the fuller.

In the case of the MK II, there is also a "secondary bevel" - a smaller ground area at the bottom of the primary bevel that creates the edge.

Your question about the sharpened swedge is a good one. Hopefully, someone will come along who knows.
 
Thomas Linton said:
Herllo, Marine.

If we use pictures and can point, labels do not matter as much. When we use only text, labels matter.

The "edge" is the frst part to contact the material being cut, and nothing else. AKA "cutting edge."

The "pimary bevel" the the part ground at an angle that connects the edge to the flat of the blade.

The issue at hand was whether the primary bevel runs from the edge to the fuller (groove ground or forged into the flat) or whether some flat is left between the top of the primary bevel and the bottom of the fuller.

In the case of the MK II, there is also a "secondary bevel" - a smaller ground area at the bottom of the primary bevel that creates the edge.

Your question about the sharpened swedge is a good one. Hopefully, someone will come along who knows.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the corrections,

Lawrence, who occasionally posts photos at www.lawrencehelm.smugmug.com
 
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