Ka-Bar Offset?

flatgrinder

flatgrinder

Joined
Dec 20, 2005
Messages
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Does Ka-Bar make any knives that have blades perfectly centered in-line with the handle? What's with the offset? :confused:
 
Are you talking about the top line of a blade in relation to rhe handle/tang or a left/right angled offset of the blade by a few deg to the handle?
 
I assume he means the way the handles sits below the center line of the blade as on the Mk2. Has always seemed odd to me also.
 
Looks like the tang has always been offset from the blade when I look carefully at the drawing of the specification. About 1/16".

Kbar01_zpsvpmvf8v5_1.jpg
1219C2%20drawing_zpsthsblgs7.jpg


Not too many of the old WW2 knives appear to be offset. Over the years the offset becomes more apparent. In both Government contract knives and commercial offerings.
 
Or alternatively, if the blade appears inline with the handle, this is sometimes an indicator that the knife is a counterfeit.
 
Visually, it looks awkward to me. The Kabar USN Mark 2 from WWII had the least amount of offset as well as the modern Ontario version even though made to spec.
 
The metal under the stacked leather handles of the WW2 versions, regardless of which manufacturer made it, conformed to the specs exactly as shown in the specs drawing sactroop posted.

Notice the drawing even specifies the thickness of the blade tip at 1/4" intervals, before settling out at a single thickness for the balance of the knife. The military is real picky about things meeting the specifications. There was an whole passel of folks whose job was to take random samples coming off the assembly lines and compare them to the specs, including destructive examination (removal of the handles for metal inspection). Any apparent visual alignment variations come from the way in which the stacked leather was sanded down after installation.

What's really cool about spec drawings like this is you can easily determine fakes/reproductions using them. Note that even the USMC stamp has specifications for font height/etc. 1 of the 2 easiest ways to spot a non-WW2 Kabar brand 1219C2 is to look at the USMC stamp - the stamp of the WW2 version is smaller, thinner legged and less deeply stamped when compared to any post-1975 Kabar 1219C2. The second is to look at the pommel. If the Kabar 1219C2 in question has a 3/8" thick PINNED pommel, it is a modern version. The WW2 thick pommel versions were peened on, with either a round or "square" peened tang.

I need to get my act together and finish up my "How to identify a real WW2 1219C2 for dummies" article.
 
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Observe the differences in WW2, post WW2 contract knives and the modern Kabar reproduction. There is a big difference visually:

 
Actually, I believe that looks like the smoothest finish on an MSI I have ever seen. Mine has grind marks that could be mistaken for traction grooves on a concrete road. :D:D:D
 
I'm actually ashamed to think we provided these things to our service personal.

33c023a0.jpg


See I was just showing it's good side earlier.:barf:
 
I was just curious, I read somewhere else that it was done to lower the point so it was more centrally located ... why not just make it a spearpoint profile and center the blade? It would be nice to ask the original designer what he had intended ...

Thank you for the replies and the specs. It's interesting stuff.
 
I think that kind of thing would happen if someone on the assembly line installed the guard backwards and sent it to the handle stage that way.
 
Yeah, I thought Toooj, explained the offest had a lot to do with keeping the blade closer to the cut, hence the guard can't get in the way so much. I can't recall though if this is correct.
 
Tdhurl1103 said:
Yeah, I thought Toooj, explained the offest had a lot to do with keeping the blade closer to the cut, hence the guard can't get in the way so much. I can't recall though if this is correct.
Click to expand...

The difference is so so minuscule that I can't see any advantage. I'm sure there was some reason behind the design as Tooj explained but it still looks wonky to to me.
 
All,

The simple answer is that the present day KA-BAR F/U knife has a much more oval handle shape than the other manufacturer versions. This was done to provide a more ergonomic and functional shape. This means the handle extends over the back spine more than the round handles of older WWII KA-BARs and the F/U knives from the other makers.

Sac Troop is correct; The tang offset has always been there. It is just more noticeable in the modern KA-BARs. ...more ergo handle or one that is in line but twists in the hand.

Sac Troop,

Your pics show why MSI only made around 5,000 F/U contract knives. Either they figured out they were not knife makers or the Government shut them down.
Hope this helps.

Best Regards,

Toooj
 
Hi Tooj,

Thanks for your reply, always helpful. Question, What about the first generation like the one I posted above? The handle is oval with flattened sides yet is almost centered on the blade. I have several Camillus post war Mark 2's and their off set is quite noticeable also. I'm guessing Camillus tweeked their version while Ontario is closer to the Govt Spec.
 
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