Cliff Stamp
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They didn't sharpen the same steels.jamesraykenney said:
-Cliff
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KaBar Dozier with Bad Edge
- Thread starter tim8557
- Start date
-Cliff
Katanas are sharpend edge forward mostly kneeling on a slighly inclined stone. I have never done it myself, mind you, I have only seen photos. See this link: http://www.ksky.ne.jp./~sumie99/togi,process.html.
Cliff, the waterstones I had trouble doing edge in strokes on are a man made blue stone and a Naniwa ebi 10000, also man made. Both are of the medium to expensive side as far as man made stones go. Both are *very* soft. You can easily gauge the blue stone just pulling a fingernail over the surface. If you increase the angle and push, the edge starts to bite almost instantly. The Naniwa is a bit more forgiving but still very soft. In comparison, I can push edge forward all day long even with increased angle on a King or Bester stone, especially the Bester stone is quite hard, as long as you don't use heavy pressure. Harrelson Stanley shows a pulling stroke along the edge for the removal of the burr on a chisel in his video which gave me the idea. I think the pulling strokes aren't all that bad, if you don't start stropping on the stone with a large number of alternating pulling strokes. I also found that you need to increase the angle quite a bit for the pulling strokes. I started with 2 deg. but I think 4 or 5 deg works better. But I have to experiment some more for that. Right now I do about 10 forward (on side 1) at the angle I am aiming for (lets say 15 deg), turn the blade over (side 2) for 2-3 pulling strokes at increased angle (about 18-20). Stay on the same side (side 2), and do 10 forward again, to remove the tiny bevel the pulling strokes might have made and to build up a new tiny burr. Then turn it over (side 1) and pull the burr off with 2-3 strokes at increased angle. And then turn it over to one more time (side 2) to give it one or two more pulling stroke at increased angle). This is all on the finishing stone. Seems to give a very nice edge. The best I have been able to produce sofar on the waterstones. But it is an ongoing project.
The steels I have tried this so far with has been only S30V and the generic Zwillings kitchen knife steel.
Cliff, the waterstones I had trouble doing edge in strokes on are a man made blue stone and a Naniwa ebi 10000, also man made. Both are of the medium to expensive side as far as man made stones go. Both are *very* soft. You can easily gauge the blue stone just pulling a fingernail over the surface. If you increase the angle and push, the edge starts to bite almost instantly. The Naniwa is a bit more forgiving but still very soft. In comparison, I can push edge forward all day long even with increased angle on a King or Bester stone, especially the Bester stone is quite hard, as long as you don't use heavy pressure. Harrelson Stanley shows a pulling stroke along the edge for the removal of the burr on a chisel in his video which gave me the idea. I think the pulling strokes aren't all that bad, if you don't start stropping on the stone with a large number of alternating pulling strokes. I also found that you need to increase the angle quite a bit for the pulling strokes. I started with 2 deg. but I think 4 or 5 deg works better. But I have to experiment some more for that. Right now I do about 10 forward (on side 1) at the angle I am aiming for (lets say 15 deg), turn the blade over (side 2) for 2-3 pulling strokes at increased angle (about 18-20). Stay on the same side (side 2), and do 10 forward again, to remove the tiny bevel the pulling strokes might have made and to build up a new tiny burr. Then turn it over (side 1) and pull the burr off with 2-3 strokes at increased angle. And then turn it over to one more time (side 2) to give it one or two more pulling stroke at increased angle). This is all on the finishing stone. Seems to give a very nice edge. The best I have been able to produce sofar on the waterstones. But it is an ongoing project.
The steels I have tried this so far with has been only S30V and the generic Zwillings kitchen knife steel.
Cliff Stamp
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Do you know anything about the construction? I have not seen anything that soft. The 200 SiC hone I have is the softest in terms of shallowing it out, it wears really fast, you have to lapp it after every sharpening, but it is no where near that. The naturals are supposed to really soft, but they do edge forward, on chisels anyway.HoB said:You can easily gauge the blue stone just pulling a fingernail over the surface.
With the stones acting as you describe I would imagine burrs would automatically deflected a great deal as they are deformation induced when the material isn't cut but just pushed around. With the stone breaking down so readily that would act against this a great deal.I think the pulling strokes aren't all that bad...
Do you know of any small (1x4") x-fine waterstones. I hand stone usually with the blade fixed.
-Cliff
I don't know anything about the makeup of the blue stone other that that it is made from particles with two different grit sizes to mimic the natural blue stones better. Its a very weird stone for sure and I have a love hate relationship with it. The softness is often bothersome but it cuts pretty fast while leaving a very fine finish, but I wouldn't use it as a finishing stone. It also needs to be flushed very often, the slush buildup is so fast, that you have to flush it frequently, otherwise you are just playing in the mud. If you cut in an angle at a coarser stone (I use a 700 Bester or a 180 Omura stone for that), you can hone edge forward at that angle no problem, only when you increase the angle its starts biting very quickly.
Shapton stones (Shaptonstones.com) offers slipstones, which maybe exactly what you are looking for. The slipstones they sell are not pre-formed, they are simple rectangles that you can buy in different thickness (I don't know their exact dimentions). They offer them in pretty much all grits (up to 15000 just checked) and they are relatively reasonably priced as well ($15-18 thereabouts). I was often thinking of getting a couple just to give those Shapton stones a try. And they have the reputation of being as good as they get.
Shapton stones (Shaptonstones.com) offers slipstones, which maybe exactly what you are looking for. The slipstones they sell are not pre-formed, they are simple rectangles that you can buy in different thickness (I don't know their exact dimentions). They offer them in pretty much all grits (up to 15000 just checked) and they are relatively reasonably priced as well ($15-18 thereabouts). I was often thinking of getting a couple just to give those Shapton stones a try. And they have the reputation of being as good as they get.
Cliff Stamp
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I looked at Shapton awhile ago, never saw them, they look perfect.
-Cliff
-Cliff