KABAR USMC fighting knife.

williamsld8

williamsld8

Joined
Sep 19, 2010
Messages
226
I have been scratching my head over this one. I see it every time i walk through the PX. I have searched and read about it incessantly. And everywhere I look, everything I read says that for 5 to 10 dollars more, the Becker BK2 is better in every way. So other than for a piece of history, nostalgia, or something along those lines, has this knife become obsolete? Every review I've read says it's too thin for batonning and other wood processing, it's too long for EDC in most places, and not designed to be optimal at skinning. This leaves self defense I would supposed. But then as you probably already know, 99% of Bladeforums population will regularly post about how a knife should be everybody's absolute last resort for fighting, even lower on the list of options than running away. It's a "USMC fighting knife" but for the public population, now that we have the BK2, what niche does this knife fill? And before you get me wrong, this is purely curiosity. I'm not saying I don't like this knife, I want one, just also trying to get some input for peace of mind. Thanks. - Lance
 
the Ka Bar USMC is a knife that has proven itself time and time again, in the field, by military types who have other things on their minds than treating a knife with kid gloves.

imho: it's the best bang-for-buck knife on the market.

it's also damn stylish i rekon.
 
Personally i dont think its too small for some batonning. my Gen 1 has been my go-to fixed blade before I bought myself a mora 612, another knife that can do wonders with wood.

but as for a niche for this knife, I cant really think of any, maybe historic camping?
 
the title says it all. it was designed to be a fighting knife, and excels at that purpose, while working for everything else, making it a perfect choice for the military. the BK2, i think, is meant for more mundane things like smashing logs with the spine ;)
 
Lance,

Don't worry, your internal conflict is not unique!

The USMC combat knife as currently produced by Ka-Bar (and Ontario) is a fine knife, and if there's any knife made today that doesn't have to justify its existence, it's that knife. Our great-grandfathers, grandfathers, fathers and brothers carried it from island to island in the Pacific to beat the Japanese back into the home islands, up the Korean peninsula to hellish places like the Chosin Reservoir, into the bloody Battle of Hue, on to the liberation of Kuwait City and into the god-forsaken city of Falluja. The blade has proven itself time and again and after 70 years of honorable service has earned a place in the hearts of Marines everywhere.

But...

Time, technology, materials and manufacturing techniques march on. The USMC combat knife design was a material saving compromise in 1942 and that compromise has carried forward to 2012. While the blade size and profile is quite good, the stick tang design is dated and creates a weak spot. When a USMC combat knife fails, it often fails at the blade/guard interface where the sharp shoulders of the tang cut introduces stress risers. The leather handle, while comfortable, is prone to rot and decay in tropical environments. These issues were acceptable in 1942 when we really didn't have many other options.

Today with modern materials and manufacturing techniques we can - and do - do better.

My opinion is that the BK-2 is not a suitable replacement for the USMC combat knife. The two have somewhat different design philosophies. The USMC combat knife was designed as a general purpose utility knife for use by Marines in combat situations while the BK-2 is designed more as a large camp knife. A better replacement for the USMC combat knife is the Becker BK-7. The blade sizes are roughly the same, but the full tang design of the BK-7 makes it a much more rugged, virtually indestructible knife. Yet it is fairly light and extremely well balanced. I consider it a worthy replacement for the venerable USMC combat knife.

If your goal is a knife that you can use without worry in a survival situation or for general outdoor tasks where a large knife is best suited then I think the BK-7 is the better option.

Brian
 
williamsld8 said:
I have been scratching my head over this one. I see it every time i walk through the PX. I have searched and read about it incessantly. And everywhere I look, everything I read says that for 5 to 10 dollars more, the Becker BK2 is better in every way. So other than for a piece of history, nostalgia, or something along those lines, has this knife become obsolete? Every review I've read says it's too thin for batonning and other wood processing, it's too long for EDC in most places, and not designed to be optimal at skinning. This leaves self defense I would supposed. But then as you probably already know, 99% of Bladeforums population will regularly post about how a knife should be everybody's absolute last resort for fighting, even lower on the list of options than running away. It's a "USMC fighting knife" but for the public population, now that we have the BK2, what niche does this knife fill? And before you get me wrong, this is purely curiosity. I'm not saying I don't like this knife, I want one, just also trying to get some input for peace of mind. Thanks. - Lance
Click to expand...

I'll weigh in on this.

In no way is the BK2 a replacement for a KABAR 1217. Is there things a BK2 can do that a 1217 won't? Maybe pry a cardoor off, 'bout it. The BK2 is a solid knife, and so is the 1217.

Anyone that says it can't/won't baton, is wrong. I promise you. I beat a 1217 through every seasoned piece of hardwood that went in my wood burning stove for 3 seasons, 3 rick a season.

I've chopped wood, cut rope, made dinner, scraped deer hide, and everything else you would want to use a knife for in the woods, it came out a winner. Then it broke.

A 1217 weighs about HALF what a BK2 does, is made to fight with or open a 55 gallon drum. Done that too. Been in service for many decades, and there IS a reason why it is in every PX across the globe. It works.

So does the BK2, but they are not in the same category.

C'mon over to the Kabar forum, so we can chat about this some more.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/874-KA-BAR-Knives

Then stop by the BKT forum after that, so we can roust the natives.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/forumdisplay.php/827-Becker-Knife-amp-Tool

They are both great knives, and ones that mean alot to me. See, I'm not just the moderator, I'm also a client.

Moose
 
To all, I thank you for your input. It's been very helpful.

To Brian, your deep insight is much appreciated, and helped me make up my mind very much so.

And to Moose, I shall take you up on your invitation. See you shortly. - Lance
 
I had a few while I was in the Marines back in the early 80's, it was the main knife I carried with me out in the field.

They work great, well at least it did for me out in the field every week and through 4 deployments.
 
As has been eluded to, the KaBar knife is the same as the 1942 contract answer for a 'knife, utility' made from what were then non-strategic materials. It was intended to open crates, packs, skulls, etc. My Dad was in the USCG on board troop ships in the S. Pacific during WWII. His KaBar is a USN marked one and has a dull secondary bevel. I used it in the 60's & 70's - along with a Western #66 fb hunter my Mom got me with Green Stamps - as my camping knives. I have since become 'enlightened' - and now 'know' what a good 'bushcraft' knife should be - primarily, it should be more expensive and harder to find! I used it for the usual camping chores; making firewood and fireplace 'accessories', as well as walking sticks. Obviously, a smaller fb, like that long lost Western, or a good folder, is better for cleaning bream, catfish, and other kitchen work. Still, not a bad choice - you can certainly live in the boonies with a KaBar. My BK2 aint too shabby, either! One can adapt... familiarity with what you 'have' beats longing for what you don't have!

At 63, I have now acquired some nice knives. If I just had the desire to 'rough it' I had years ago. Somehow, a rental room/condo - with A/C and a nice shower - maybe a TV to watch 'survival' shows - beats ticks, mosquitos, snakes, poison oak, and drinking hot, freshly boiled, water (Perhaps there is a little Bear Grylls in me? Naw, no satelite phone or 'copter service on standby!). Still - the knives are neat - everyone should have a KaBar, Buck 110, and some kind of SAK... tradition, unhampered by progress!

Stainz
 
In almost 9 years in the Marines and on land in over ten countries, I batoned a total of... drumroll please! ZERO times! The USMC Fighting/Utility knife is as it is described. The military has a unique way of doing things and a unique way of naming and describing things which doesn't always transfer to civilian live and language well.

For instance, the words "fighting knife" in civilian life means its cool or that it was featured on a shoot-um up video game or Stalone movie. In the military, especially the Marines, it means an instrument used to kill another human being. They don't get up and high five each other and you don't get three plays for a quarter like on a video game. The human really dies. Interestingly, they don't care if they die with a elephant bone scale, custom forged blade made from a Mercedes truck spring. All they care about is that they are dead. And I think history has recorded that many many many many humans have died at the hands of a US Marine and their Ka-Bar. From a military perspective: mission accomplished.

Being out in the field to a civilian usually means roughing it 12.5 feet off a dirt road with the "few" essentials that you can fit into your Ford Excursion! Sometimes those bundles of fire wood you buy at your grocery store or Wal-Mart can have pieces that are a bit big so, to justify to your wife why you just spent $420 on a custom camp knife, you split 2 or three of them up into smaller pieces and then start your fire. She is impressed and everyone is happy.

To someone in the military, there is some guy in a nice office in DC decides that you should get in a helicopter and be dropped in the middle of a jungle or desert with as much food, water, ammo, gear and supplies as you can carry. They rarely if ever give you any details. The rarely if ever come and get you when they say they will. And my favorite part; most of the folks you encounter try to kill you. So the knife you carry should be able to do a multitude of things besides the afore-mentioned, killing of a human. This is where the other part of the name comes in, utility. In the Marines, we are not blessed with huge budgets and often got gear that was already used. My SAW for instance was used and thrown away by the Army, they didn't like it so they ordered something else. So the word "Utility" in the Marines means, it does just about any other job not described under the first job, killing. Obviously since the knife has been around virtually unchanged for all the wars our Marines have fought in, it is either doing its job or we are all crazy. Don't think I haven't given the "crazy" thing some serious consideration but in this case, I think the knife has made its case.

Is it pretty? No. Does it have exotic materials on it? No. Sorry if it doesn't fit in with the yuppie crowd or look good next to the I-Pad 2. Sorry if it doesn't fit into one of the nifty forum categories here on Blade Forums, but it does the job and it does it well. So if you want to join the Corps or one of the other branches of the military and carry a BK-2 or one of John Paul Smith's custom creations, have at it and good luck! Like Ankerson said, I carried mine in peacetime, in training and in war; besides sharpening it from time to time, it was by my side just like my M-16 or SAW. It didn't rust, it didn't break, the weak tang didn't explode, the leather handles didn't swell up and cause carpel tunnel and the fact that it didn't have a high speed kydex sheath (I'm old) didn't make the other Marines laugh at me.

It is what it is, buy it and give it a try. If you don't like it, give it to an old Marine as a gift and get something else. You will make a friend for life and you will put a huge smile on someones face!
 
Kabar 1217 and Becker BK2 - both outstanding knives with very different designs. You're not going to go too far wrong with either one (or both, better yet). Plan to do a bit of knife fighting as well as a bunch of camp chores? Get the 1217. Plan to skip the knife fighting bit and do more chores (and field strip the occasional lawnmower)? Get the BK2.

---
Beckerhead #42
 
I own one, and I really like it. I can't see it failing under hard use. That said, there are probably newer and better knives out there that use newer and better technologies.
 
shortwinger said:
In almost 9 years in the Marines and on land in over ten countries, I batoned a total of... drumroll please! ZERO times! The USMC Fighting/Utility knife is as it is described. The military has a unique way of doing things and a unique way of naming and describing things which doesn't always transfer to civilian live and language well.

For instance, the words "fighting knife" in civilian life means its cool or that it was featured on a shoot-um up video game or Stalone movie. In the military, especially the Marines, it means an instrument used to kill another human being. They don't get up and high five each other and you don't get three plays for a quarter like on a video game. The human really dies. Interestingly, they don't care if they die with a elephant bone scale, custom forged blade made from a Mercedes truck spring. All they care about is that they are dead. And I think history has recorded that many many many many humans have died at the hands of a US Marine and their Ka-Bar. From a military perspective: mission accomplished.

Being out in the field to a civilian usually means roughing it 12.5 feet off a dirt road with the "few" essentials that you can fit into your Ford Excursion! Sometimes those bundles of fire wood you buy at your grocery store or Wal-Mart can have pieces that are a bit big so, to justify to your wife why you just spent $420 on a custom camp knife, you split 2 or three of them up into smaller pieces and then start your fire. She is impressed and everyone is happy.

To someone in the military, there is some guy in a nice office in DC decides that you should get in a helicopter and be dropped in the middle of a jungle or desert with as much food, water, ammo, gear and supplies as you can carry. They rarely if ever give you any details. The rarely if ever come and get you when they say they will. And my favorite part; most of the folks you encounter try to kill you. So the knife you carry should be able to do a multitude of things besides the afore-mentioned, killing of a human. This is where the other part of the name comes in, utility. In the Marines, we are not blessed with huge budgets and often got gear that was already used. My SAW for instance was used and thrown away by the Army, they didn't like it so they ordered something else. So the word "Utility" in the Marines means, it does just about any other job not described under the first job, killing. Obviously since the knife has been around virtually unchanged for all the wars our Marines have fought in, it is either doing its job or we are all crazy. Don't think I haven't given the "crazy" thing some serious consideration but in this case, I think the knife has made its case.

Is it pretty? No. Does it have exotic materials on it? No. Sorry if it doesn't fit in with the yuppie crowd or look good next to the I-Pad 2. Sorry if it doesn't fit into one of the nifty forum categories here on Blade Forums, but it does the job and it does it well. So if you want to join the Corps or one of the other branches of the military and carry a BK-2 or one of John Paul Smith's custom creations, have at it and good luck! Like Ankerson said, I carried mine in peacetime, in training and in war; besides sharpening it from time to time, it was by my side just like my M-16 or SAW. It didn't rust, it didn't break, the weak tang didn't explode, the leather handles didn't swell up and cause carpel tunnel and the fact that it didn't have a high speed kydex sheath (I'm old) didn't make the other Marines laugh at me.

It is what it is, buy it and give it a try. If you don't like it, give it to an old Marine as a gift and get something else. You will make a friend for life and you will put a huge smile on someones face!
Click to expand...


Yeah, well said...... :thumbup:
 
damned comfy handle on the 1217! Nothing quite like a stacked leather handle.
 
I'm a huge fan of the USMC knife. In my experience, it's certainly NOT too thin for batoning or wood processing. In fact, it excels at just about every camp chore I've applied it to, from splitting wood into kindling to building shelters. It has plenty of belly, near the tip, so it's actually a decent skinning blade as well. And it's just about perfect for cooking around a camp fire or over a portable stove. I even use one for grilling out on my patio.
I prefer it to the Beckers and the like, because the stacked leather handle is so comfortable.
Overall, it's a strong, durable, dependable tool. I've abused the hell out of mine, and haven't managed to break it. Of course, some people have gotten lemons, but that can happen with any brand/manufacturer.
 
Shortwinger summed it up pretty damn well. The Kabar Fighting/Utility knife is made for fighting/utility. Sure the BK2 is built like a tank and is nearly indestructible but the Kabar is made for the military and therefore should be able to hold up to nearly any task you put it up to. The design hasn't changed in around 5 decades so obviously it lives up to its name as a strong, dependable, and useful knife. If this knife constantly snapped in half, it would not still be in use by many deployed overseas or have a name for being one of the most classic and rugged knives on the market. It is also a fact that the blade is not to thin to baton with. The BK2 might excel in this area but it was made in the thought that the knife may be used in this case seeing as it is a camping/survival type knife.
 
I didn't realize the KABAR still had this much of a fan base. I figured people had moved on to the 'bigger, better, newer' stuff of modern day today. It's all of your passion about tradition and roots that makes me love this place that much more.
 
My neighbor's kid went to Marine Boot Camp, and is due to graduate in Oct. I promised him before he left that if he graduated, I would give him a KaBar. He didn't have any idea what I was talking about, but I bet he'll smile when I give it to him in a month!
 
williamsld8 said:
I didn't realize the KABAR still had this much of a fan base. I figured people had moved on to the 'bigger, better, newer' stuff of modern day today. It's all of your passion about tradition and roots that makes me love this place that much more.
Click to expand...

Ka-Bars were the first knives I ever bought as a teenager. Since then I have bought many other knives from other brands. I have sunk several thousand into my knife collection and after all that, I return to the Ka-Bar and in my opinion they are the best brand of knives with the best value.

"Better, newer" stuff? Do you mean the Ka-bar in D2? Made in the USA, excellent heat treat like all Ka-Bars, they have a video on how these are made it's a 3 stage heat treat including a cryo stage where they cool it down to -120 degrees. Ka-Bars come sharper than any other knife I've ever gotten, and the d2 ones are only $100. That shows you just how overpriced all these other companies are. What other company offers a big D2 fixed blade made in the US for $100?

My one disappointment with Ka-Bars is they got rid of the sharpened swedges. Bring that back Ka-Bar!
 
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