Kai/ZT legal action against MT

M

mactitan

Joined
Oct 29, 2005
Messages
34
Just read a post on a German knife blog stating that KAI/ZT in protection of their recent patent of subframe locks took legal action against Microtech and MT has since stopped the sale and advertising of all their knives using this lock. Is there already a thread about this here on BF?
 
Didn't this happen quite a few years ago when the Matrix came out after the 777? Maybe there is something recent that I'm not aware of.
 
Blues Bender said:
Didn't this happen quite a few years ago when the Matrix came out after the 777? Maybe there is something recent that I'm not aware of.
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http://knifenews.com/breaking-kai-to-defend-sub-framelock-patent/

http://knifenews.com/sub-framelock-patent/

KAI is taking action to protect the sub frame lock after finally receiving a patent. The original patent application was filed back in 2011....so Microtech was sent a cease and desist to stop making and selling any model using the sub framelock, this includes the matrix, whaleshark, doc, anax, and several others.
 
KAI can go shove it, Microtech has been using a "Sub" type lock since the 90's with the Socom Elites using a "Sub Liner Lock" that meets darn near every single point shown on KAI's "Sub Frame Lock" patent right down to the milled internal pocket for the lock-bar to go. They are still made about the whole Matrix / 0777 debacle but need I remind every one that the Matrix was in response to the OTF that was almost an exact copy of the Scarab.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KdgTJURBCE

That and well I think KAI and ZT is not a well ran company and I do not approve of their business practices. ZT making and showing off these super high end "Limited Editions" at shows to win awards and then not making them for years is ridiculous at least Microtech can produce product at that high of a level consistently. Then do not even get me started on ZT's Thomas not being able to stand criticism and moving off Bladeforums much like Hinderer did.
 
Dean Crail said:
KAI can go shove it, Microtech has been using a "Sub" type lock since the 90's with the Socom Elites using a "Sub Liner Lock" that meets darn near every single point shown on KAI's "Sub Frame Lock" patent right down to the milled internal pocket for the lock-bar to go. They are still made about the whole Matrix / 0777 debacle but need I remind every one that the Matrix was in response to the OTF that was almost an exact copy of the Scarab.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KdgTJURBCE

That and well I think KAI and ZT is not a well ran company and I do not approve of their business practices. ZT making and showing off these super high end "Limited Editions" at shows to win awards and then not making them for years is ridiculous at least Microtech can produce product at that high of a level consistently. Then do not even get me started on ZT's Thomas not being able to stand criticism and moving off Bladeforums much like Hinderer did.
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before you get high & mighty....read the patent again. It clearly states that a sub frame lock has a cutout in the frame where the lockbar is exposed. The sub frame lock is different than the inset liner lock on socoms, KAI is not going after them. You really think that in a few minutes of reading you came up with a better argument than KAI's legal team? If their claim was so flimsy why didn't tony bring any subframe products to blade? Just because you don't like ZT doesn't mean they cant protect their legally awarded patent. Maybe if Tony didn't blatantly steal the design then slap it on every subsequent model he made they wouldn't be in such a pickle. oh, and in regards to the ZT OTF, that never made it to market, the matrix did. The unfinished ZT prototype was no more a ripoff than any other dual action OTF on the market. Don't turn this into a MT fanboy vs ZT fanboy argument.

Glad to have a place where people can share their opinions, I disagree with yours, so does the US Patent office.
 
Dean Crail said:
KAI can go shove it, Microtech has been using a "Sub" type lock since the 90's with the Socom Elites using a "Sub Liner Lock" that meets darn near every single point shown on KAI's "Sub Frame Lock" patent right down to the milled internal pocket for the lock-bar to go. .
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There's a HUGE massive rift between 'darn near every' and 'every' when it comes to patent law.

Microtech doesn't have a leg to stand on and they know it.

The ZT OTF was a proto that never came to market. Vastly different from Microtech copying ZT's IP and then adapting it to every knife in their lineup.
 
Dean Crail said:
KAI can go shove it, Microtech has been using a "Sub" type lock since the 90's with the Socom Elites using a "Sub Liner Lock" that meets darn near every single point shown on KAI's "Sub Frame Lock" patent right down to the milled internal pocket for the lock-bar to go. They are still made about the whole Matrix / 0777 debacle but need I remind every one that the Matrix was in response to the OTF that was almost an exact copy of the Scarab.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KdgTJURBCE
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MicroTech Socom Elite is an inset liner lock whereas MicroTech Socom Delta is a subframe lock. Different animals. Elite is fine but Delta, DOC and some others violate the KAI patent.

ZT never brought out the OTF so it's a moot and irrelevant point.

Dean Crail said:
That and well I think KAI and ZT is not a well ran company and I do not approve of their business practices. ZT making and showing off these super high end "Limited Editions" at shows to win awards and then not making them for years is ridiculous at least Microtech can produce product at that high of a level consistently. Then do not even get me started on ZT's Thomas not being able to stand criticism and moving off Bladeforums much like Hinderer did.
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More irrelevant points.

BladeShow2011AwardKnifeFrontBacksmall.jpg
 
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Detailed description of schematic, 8th paragraph down:

"In other embodiments, the pocket may be sized to accommodate the entire lockbar so that the handle effectively hides the lockbar from view."

To me this sounds like they are trying to patent inset liner locks too. Anyone else have thoughts on where they might take this?
 
Atakdog said:
Detailed description of schematic, 8th paragraph down:

"In other embodiments, the pocket may be sized to accommodate the entire lockbar so that the handle effectively hides the lockbar from view."

To me this sounds like they are trying to patent inset liner locks too. Anyone else have thoughts on where they might take this?
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I think you are interpreting it Wrong. That part while but is explaining why it is unique and innovative. It's saying that in other examples, they were doing it this other way which is different from how we were doing it and that's why we deserve this patent.

From the knife law article:

Despite its use of a detachable lock bar, an inset liner lock like the one found on the new CRKT Homefront won’t be affected. It also doesn’t apply to Todd Begg’s bolt-on lock, which is anchored by the knife’s backspacer.
 
RIPtastic said:
So what happens now? Microtech has to can pretty much all of their folder line up?
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MicroTech still has all their autos, OTF, liner locks and fixed blades.

I think the subframe lock patent mainly applies to MicroTech's DOC, Sigil, Matrix, Delta, Whaleshark and Star Lord, etc. Not sure about Anax and Hara.
 
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Dean Crail said:
KAI can go shove it, Microtech has been using a "Sub" type lock since the 90's with the Socom Elites using a "Sub Liner Lock" that meets darn near every single point shown on KAI's "Sub Frame Lock" patent right down to the milled internal pocket for the lock-bar to go. They are still made about the whole Matrix / 0777 debacle but need I remind every one that the Matrix was in response to the OTF that was almost an exact copy of the Scarab.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KdgTJURBCE

That and well I think KAI and ZT is not a well ran company and I do not approve of their business practices. ZT making and showing off these super high end "Limited Editions" at shows to win awards and then not making them for years is ridiculous at least Microtech can produce product at that high of a level consistently. Then do not even get me started on ZT's Thomas not being able to stand criticism and moving off Bladeforums much like Hinderer did.
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Sounds like some butthurt in your history, Dean. Kai is getting along fine without your guidance, but I am sure they would happily read your thoughts on how they could improve their very high PINS and get better than selling out of all of their LE offerings in hours.

I'll leave them to their business and enjoy the knives. IF you enjoy Microtech knives, now is a good time to stock up.

best

mqqn
 
RamZar said:
MicroTech still has all their autos, OTF, liner locks and fixed blades.

I think the subframe lock patent mainly applies to MicroTech's DOC, Sigil, Matrix, Delta, Whaleshark and Star Lord, etc. Not sure about Anax and Hara.
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Yeah I'm not sure about those two either. I don't recall seeing any reference in the patent info for which side of the handle the lock is bolted to (Anax), and the terms they used were pretty vague as far as how much of the lockbar is exposed (Hara).

I kind of hope eliminating all of their current folder line will bring back the Socom Elite though (maybe with a tip up pocket clip, please?).
 
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