Karda Blade Thickness - Again!

1/8" thick
3/4" tall (spine to edge)
zero-edge grind about 1/2-2/3 the way up


or

5/32" thickness
3/4" tall (spine to edge)
full flat grind
0.020" thickness at the edge



my 0.02
 
I should have said earlier that I don't mind the handles being as short as they are. I'm certainly not opposed to longer handles, but I find the short ones perfectly OK for the casual work that my karda might do.

If I need a bigger knife, I've got the khukuri.
 
It's not the need for a bigger knife, but the fact I find the small ones hard to control if i can only get 2 fingers on it. I only asked for enough increase in handle to get 3 fingers, not asking for a full-sized knife here.
 
Hmmm....maybe I should add that my hands are probably smaller than some (But apparently bigger than most of the staff in any rubber glove factory...dang they can be tight).

I guess, on average, most of my knives would be smaller than those that many others would use. I find that I will often grip the blade of some knives to do certain jobs. This puts my hand nearer the part of the blade that is doing the work...thus maybe giving me a bit more control.

Here is how I might often use a small knife like a karda. The karda shown is the one that came with my 12" Ang Khola. The steel is a tad softer than I'd prefer, but this is a very useful little knife nevertheless. I've used it a lot...and it is the karda I used to skin, gut, and decapitate a young boar as described in another recent thread.

KardaGrip1.jpg


KardaGrip2.jpg


KardaGrip3.jpg


The bottom portion of the blade is not sharpened on this karda, so this 'lengthens' the handle in a way.

If I had to work with a knife for a long time each day to do jobs that required even moderate force, I would want a full-sized handle. This would be especially so if the conditions were cold, wet or slippery. But for odd jobs this karda is ideal...in fact its small size can be an advantage over a bigger knife.

But that is just me.
 
Longer handle shorter blade can do 10x as many jobs as smaller handle long blade. {blades are meant to be blunt to be held as handles.}

Spiral
 
Aye Spiral, a bigger handle does give you a better grip and it can be very handy.

The trouble is, there is not just one knife anywhere that is best for every application. I'm throwing in my views in support of what appears to be the traditional karda design. This is a handy little 'extra' blade that can be used for fiddly little jobs that a bigger khukuri might not be so well suited to. I've only just discovered how wonderful khukuris are....and I figure if the Nepalese have designed such a wonderful tool as the khukuri, then they probably had very good reasons for making the karda as we know it.

But it is great that the suppliers want to accomodate the wishes of their customers, and I am a great believer in free enterprise. And I certainly wouldn't be unhappy to receive a khuk in the future that had an 'oversize' karda. I've seldom met a genuine working knife that I didn't like.

I skinned two brushtailed possums with my wee karda this morning. Nice skins too. I've been beginning to think, though, that if my karda had a 'seax' slope on the back of the blade instead of the drop point, then it would be better for possum skinning....but that would make the point weaker for when I'm trying to cut through the joints of bigger animals..........
 
coote said:
Aye Spiral, a bigger handle does give you a better grip and it can be very handy.

The trouble is, there is not just one knife anywhere that is best for every application. I'm throwing in my views in support of what appears to be the traditional karda design. This is a handy little 'extra' blade that can be used for fiddly little jobs that a bigger khukuri might not be so well suited to. I've only just discovered how wonderful khukuris are....and I figure if the Nepalese have designed such a wonderful tool as the khukuri, then they probably had very good reasons for making the karda as we know it.

..........
Click to expand...


The bit missing from that equation is true old villager kardas in Nepal have 2.5 in or longer handles which is the width of theier hand across the fingers at the middle knuckle on average in the villages of Nepal...

Old military karda were the same untill about 1903 or so when they started issuing a clasp knife with cutting blade, tin opener & marlin spike instead of karda & chakmak.

Since then they have when included there usualy just been tokens of tradition.

I have about 120 karda. Only 3 or 4 have short handles and there all fairly modern, [last 30 years or so.] The rest are usable.

Spiral
 
Spiral....this is excellent information !! Thanks very much indeed.

Is that handle length based on the width of three, or four, fingers across the middle knuckles? I note that the corresponding width across my four fingers is over 3". The width across my middle three fingers is pretty close to 2.5 inches.

It would be really good to see some pictures of the old kardas if you ever get the time to post them.

You obviously have quite a knowledge of these things. In your opinion, what HI khukuri model would be most similar to the khukuris used 100 years ago by Nepali villagers and hunters etc?

Much appreciated....Coote.
 
Coote,
Here are some kardas from the "good old days". I can't say how old any of them are, but they mostly seem to have been used, or at least to have been capable of being used if needed.
Berk

71nkvaw.jpg
 
I have a few like #3 and #4 in your pic, Berkley - and they do work great. :thumbup:

I don't mind a three-finger handle...just need a substantial enough blade.
 
Wow...thanks Berkley. Very nice old knives. That one at the bottom seems to have done a few miles. Interesting to see the trouble somebody went to to fit a steel sleeve between the handle and blade.

Any idea how far the tang would typically penetrate into the handle?

Thanks for taking the time to show me these impressive antiques.
 
Thanks Berk! Nice one! Great examples of the style.

Heres a few old Barking deer ones as well.

P1010009.jpg


The long one has a 5 inch blade & is a shepards one used for shearing sheep. I think its called an Aisne? but I cant find it in my notes at momment....

Coote, The majority of old villge kukri ive seen are Sirupati in style But quite heavy & forward balenced usualy, & often with long blades when you go back to early 20th century. for chopping firewood etc. Some shorter lighter bladed, very pointy more martial styles are popular for self defense as well. But theres so many variations in kukri its hard to be difinative.

As for old karda tangs anything from 1 inch to 2 inches is not unusual, judging from those with rotted or broken handles. Depends who made it. Evry village had at least one Kami family. I think there about 5million in the kami family caste in Nepal today? each village kukri is made without any power tools so theres immense variation.

The ferrule strengthens the handles to prevent splitting when under leverage & a kami will make then in the in a blink of an eye.

id say 100 odd years ago most karda would fit 4 fingers on a Nepali hand, But i agree with Dan 3 fingers is great as well.

Spiral
 
Thanks Spiral...interesting to see antler handles without the characteristic 'wide' butt that I thought was the norm.

I'd like to see those kamis at work.

Another thing that grabbed my attention was the shepherd's knife. I've shorn a few sheep myself using the old scissor-like blade shears, but doing the job with a knife is something I've never really considered. You'd have to be careful, and the knife would need to be sharp. But that shape looks like it is well suited. Maybe I'll try using a knife, at least for part of the job, next time I'm involved with shearing. The sheep sometimes have more than one year's growth, and shearing them isn't easy...especially when their wool is full of sticks and things. Whereas sticks would jam the blade shears, and stones would damage them, a knife would slide happily under both objects.

Sorry about all the questions, but how do those ferrules appear to have been made?...From a strip of thin metal that has been formed into a 'ring' and then joined by brazing maybe?

Thanks....Coote
 
coote said:
.

Sorry about all the questions, but how do those ferrules appear to have been made?...From a strip of thin metal that has been formed into a 'ring' and then joined by brazing maybe?
Click to expand...

No problem, I generaly do my best to share my thoughts on kukri.

They are made exactly as you suggest. ;)

One piece Hand Forged sprung shears require a fantastic forging skill I would think? & would cost a lot more than any kukri to have made by kami. I guess thats why there sheppards used these? But thats just conjecture.

Ill have to chase up a friend who has the full info on them, {She used to raise sheep & has a sheep & shepards type libary from around the world! So lucky tht I browsed her libary one day, as I had always wondered why this karda was that shape.} as I seem to have lost my copy of it.

Spiral
 
Good on yer Spiral, this is interesting stuff. I appreciate your willingness to share.

I'd say you are exactly right about the cost and complication of making and maintaining a set of hand shears. A simple curved blade might take a bit longer to do the job, but it is relatively easy to carry and maintain...and would have been much cheaper to produce.

This photo was taken about 30 years ago, but the scene is repeated nowadays...although I'm pleased to say that my brother now does most of the actual shearing. But I'm keen to have a curvy karda next time the shearing is done just to see how this tool would work. Some of these sheep get really hairy:

Shearing.jpg
 
I finally got around to experimenting with making my own kardas. I was inspired by the 'shearing' version shown above, although I didn't have a convenient bit of steel to make a full-length blade....but I reckon this shorter one will give me an idea of how a knife might work for removing wool.

I have come to appreciate the seax point for skinning possums, so that is why the other kardas are shaped like they are.

Three of them have ferrules, but I don't think that this is absolutely necessary. I used one of the plain-handled kardas for some fairly tough whittling and there is no hint that the blade wants to break out of the handle. The tangs are glued in place with two-pot epoxy. One day I hope to make some 'Himalayan epoxy' just to try it.

I've been carrying around one of the shorter kardas in my pocket. The blade is covered with a bit of polythene tube that I heated in boiling water then squashed flat by quickly placing it between a couple of bits of lumber which I clamped together.

I reckon that if I am going to use a short knife, then the shape of the karda handle is a good one to use. I find it good for controlling the knife.

KardaVariations.jpg
 
Cool, they look higly usable peaces!

the long curved shepards karda is like a razor but more "toothy" but thats probaly age & use.

Look forward to your discoverys!

Spiral
 
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