Katana cutting ability?

Hey Stu,

I have to admit that I haven't even heard of the book that you mention, although I thought that I had a pretty complete set (got lucky on ebay.) Ebay is a very good place to find those books for next to nothing. One of my favorite Laumer books that I got in that lot wasn't even a Retief book though, it is called "The Glory Game." A very good read.

Hey Cliff,

I couldn't say what the edge geometry is for sure, however since Mr. Clark makes "Japanese style" blades and they look very traditional (although they are made using a powerhammer) I suspect that they have the typical "Moran" or clamshell geometry that you would expect to see on a katana. I personally think that if any edge could withstand that type of abuse that is probably the edge for it. I think that the lack of edge damage (and remember I did not see this only referencing a report) resulted more from the remarkable properties of the L6 being used then anything else.
 
There are swords manufactured by the Northern Shaolin Acadamy in
Jiling Province China. Their claim is swords can cut 1/2 cm cable.
I have several models on the way to test.
 
Comparing a sword to another, we tend to forget there could be wide variation within a type. Katana, like many other swords, has variations in history, and even today. Modern Tameshigiri (no human bodies these 100 years, dead or alive) competitions are held sometimes just for fun. Most of attendants bring their best katanas, still they vary in many aspects.

Experts of more than half century say they love light weight thin blades for speed as they already have acquired enough pricision not to hit the target at offset angle. For them lateral strength nor inertia is needless. The rest of us have wider blade for shallower angle in cross section, more weight for inertia, a little bit thicker blade in case of offset slash, namely, tough katanas.

If putting aesthetics aside, steel is steel anywhere, and katana is just a curved sword. Handles can be made any long or short. Long handled katana can't be told from Nagamaki, or Otoko Naginata. Blade can be made any long or short. Some Katanas had 6' blade. Almost half of the edge was dulled to hold at the place like a lance.

Still I think katana has an advantage. Japanese have been conservative for thousands of years. Katana smiths have always tried to keep its style and improve it in quality only rather than inventing or changing it. This made developing MA techniques easy. Sensei's sensei's sensei... 's technique seldom gets obsolete in utilizing katanas. IMO, katana combined with kenjutsu including modern kendo can be one of the best, but without those techniques a katana is just a kind of curved sword.
 
Elwin,
In regard to the cavalry saber it sounds like
the 1796 calavry saber aka Bulcher saber used by the
British and Prussians at Waterloo. It is the western
variant of the Indian Talawar.Hope this helps
 
Elwin, Micheal Bell is who you are refering to, I have the article around here some where.

He started off testing with 1/4" aluminum rod, then moved to 1/4 mild steel rod and from there to 3/8" wire rope. The article didn't say there was no damage to the cutting edge, however, they didn't say there was damage eigther. He made his own steel useing only carbon and iron.

The purpase of foulding steel was to work impurities out of the metal and to distribute the carbon evenly. I also understand that some katana smiths laminated a soft back around a hard jacket, some went so far as to have a hard edge, soft back and springy sides, makeing the sword a composit.

As far as L-6 used for a sword, I am a knife maker and although I havn't got to a sword yet,(will get there eventualy!) I have made a lot of knives out of L-6. L-6 is basicly 1075 steel with a 2% nickle added. The 2%nickle makes it damn near indistructible when it is heat treated right. I have used small hunting knife blades of L-6 to cut through nails and angle iron(with a three pound hammer pounding on the back) with no edge damage, even with thin edges. L-6 makes a wonderfull hard use steel, and will definatly show a good temper line.

The cutting ability of the katana is due manly to the curve of the blade and the geomitry. A properly made katana has no secondary edge, it is full convex ground from the midline to the edge, and the mid line to the spine is narrower than the midline.

As for not getting a temper after harding, I'm not sure, but I beleive that the back has enough heat left in the clay to give at least a stress releive temper, kinda like how the old black smiths used to heattreat chisels. All that would be needed would be 2-300deg. left in the back for at least a partial temper cycle. Also the simpler steels don't require as complex a heattreat as some of the new steels.

Oh ya, a blade that is highly polished would slice better than a rough finished blade, it would also let a buyer inspect the blade for flaws, and a high polish is less likly to corode.

Even with all of that, the blade is still no better than the man behind it.

Sorry to make such a long post, but I thought I'd put my .02cents in.

William
 
Heya Will...good post!

Would like to point out that the curvature does not necessarily make the sword cut easier, but the curvature that is there compliments a proper cutting stroke in such a natural way that the cut IS very effective. It can be compensated for, but the right amount being there is nice :D

Also, L6 as used by some makers like Howard Clark isn't an inherently superior material...but when heat treated right it can display some very admirable qualities in toughness. However, in Howard's case, he even takes that to the extreme by turning the body of the blade into bainite. One of the main reasons he chooses L6 is that due to its properties (TTT curve in particular if I recall correctly), it's a bit easier for Howard to consistently make the high quality bainite body with martensite edge.

A good number of older blades were not given a post-hardening temper, but obviously many were. Not every single Nihonto ever made is a complete top-quality masterpiece (as much as I hate to admit it :D).

And finally, a high Japanese polish is, unfortunately, very susceptible to rusting when it's fresh. Mirror buffed and burnished steel is fairly resistant, but that is quite a bit different from the traditional polish, as I'm sure you know. As long as the blade is kept well though, there should be little to no problems with oxidation, even with use.

Robert.
 
Hi Robert, the quality of a good sword is the same as that of any custom knife, it depends on the smith. The only info I have seen on Japanese sword smiths was in "The Craft of the Japanese Sword" by Leon and Hiroko Kapp, Yoshindo Yoshihara. The tecnicle aspects were a little on the light side, they never mentioned a secondary temper. I do know that with a clay coated back and interuped water quench there is some reatained heat. The back cools slower than the edge, and the heat has to travel to the edge. How much heat? I don't know, but untempered martensite is unstable. The few knives that I have done a clay coating on got put in the oven for good measure though!:)

I keep working on bigger and bigger knives, one of these days I will get into swords. I want to, but the skill is not there yet, one day!

Thanks,

William
 
I still have the article on Micheal Bell at home somewhere. He studied under a swordsmith (Namaguchi?) in the sagami method. He did use free hanging logging cable, but I dont think it was half inch. More like quarter inch. It was a cool article. He used a little giant trip hammer to forge his blades. Did his own polishing. He smelted his own steel too. Used the highest carbon content he could find. Neat article.
 
Ok. That's pretty cool. I am glad to hear someone admit that not every katana ever made was a masterpiece. To hear some people talk about them, you would think that a return trip to heaven was involved. Anyway, I completely agree that the skill of the smith is all important in determining quality.
One more question. Where can I get some L6. Not much, just a bar maybe 18"x1.5"x1/4" or so. What I am asking is there anywhere to get it and not have to buy in bulk, or by the ton?
 
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