-
The BladeForums.com 2024 Traditional Knife is ready to order! See this thread for details: https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/bladeforums-2024-traditional-knife.2003187/
Price is$300$250 ea (shipped within CONUS). If you live outside the US, I will contact you after your order for extra shipping charges.
Order here: https://www.bladeforums.com/help/2024-traditional/ - Order as many as you like, we have plenty.
Katana Pics
- Thread starter Jose Reyes
- Start date
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2001
- Messages
- 1,152
You know Jose, this is a very good question. The truth is that I have no idea. The project spanned 3 or 4 years, and between the time I bought the unpolished blade (step 1) to the time the mounts were completed, too much time had been spent. I didn't keep good enough records. I know the menuki by themselves were a cool 1 grand.
With this said, mine is PW. I'm reasonably certain a 1086M with Fred Lohman polish & mounts would be less than $10,000 by quite a margin.
Personally I have decided not to get involved in Jpz swords anymore. It's a process that is too long, too expensive, and too fraught with risks. This sword of mine came up great, but I have had another experience where I invested tons of money in a blade that ended up being flawed, and in a case like that there's nothing you can do (you cannot demand counts to the smith when you've spent 1-to-3X the price of the raw blade into the polish for example).
Hey Joss, I thought this was your sword?
http://www.summerchild.com/hc_foldeddaito_jd.htmThe price is not important, but I must say I was somewhat affronted by your <percieved, unintentional> attempt to devalue my blade. "I'm reasonably certain a 1086M with Fred Lohman polish & mounts would be less than $10,000 by quite a margin" This does not describe my sword, it's much closer to yours except that it has a core steel. You're correct about the risks involved.
Thanks, Riad, if you want me to point you to some good books you can start reading up on it... :thumbup:
Edited to add I just re-read BJ's post.
"I dream about someday getting my hands on a Slobodian shobu-zukuri or a Clark 1086M. Or a DiCristofano o-kissaki. But I suspect we're talking 5 figures there...tough to justify when I've got mouths to feed!"
I assume now you were talking about his examples. My apologies...
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
- Messages
- 7,353
Jose,
My comment was in response to the preceding comment that mentionned "...I dream about someday getting my hands on a Slobodian shobu-zukuri or a Clark 1086M. Or a DiCristofano o-kissaki. But I suspect we're talking 5 figures there...".
I wasn't commenting on your sword at all, sorry for the confusion, I'll edit my post to make it clearer.
Your sword is great - complete understated samurai class. I like it a lot.
My comment was in response to the preceding comment that mentionned "...I dream about someday getting my hands on a Slobodian shobu-zukuri or a Clark 1086M. Or a DiCristofano o-kissaki. But I suspect we're talking 5 figures there...".
I wasn't commenting on your sword at all, sorry for the confusion, I'll edit my post to make it clearer.
Your sword is great - complete understated samurai class. I like it a lot.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2001
- Messages
- 1,152
Simu-post. Sorry, Joss, read my edit above...
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
- Messages
- 7,353
Hey Joss, I thought this was your sword?
Yep, that's mine. This one came out really well.
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2006
- Messages
- 2,036
Well, a Clark in binsui goes for something in the $3k range, I think. That's in 1086M or L6 Bainite and assuming he's taking orders! If you want sanmai or tamahagane you need to visit with someone else and I suspect the cost will be higher. Then a polish by Larman, DeMesa, Thell, or one of the other big names puts you at over $100 an inch, I'd guess (FWIW, I need 30.5" for iaido--and even if the sword will never get used, there's no point in buying one that doesn't fit me). Follow up with nice kodogu from Hastings or another maker and you can easily spend $1000 without the menuki. Putting it all together is another $1k...and by now you've spent 3-4 years on top of it...
Nothing against Lohman but I'd prefer handmade fittings and a polisher I can talk to.
This is exactly why I have a dojo katana in progress with Bailey Bradshaw. He's (a) a 1-stop-shop for everything (blade forging all the way through final mounting) AND (b) his prices are incredibly reasonable, (c) once you're at the top of the queue you have the finished product PDQ.
Anyway, this is all taking away from the discussion of the beauty that Jose posted! The simple, elegant Higo fittings and the well-executed color theme makes this a standout despite its understatedness. My preference is for silk ito but that's just a personal preference. The doeskin complements the overall theme well. :thumbup:
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2006
- Messages
- 2,036
$8k, $10k, close enough for government work.
Actually that's a very nice piece for the price and in an unusual sugata. Unfortunately too short for me.
At a guess I'd say you could save money by purchasing a consignment piece vs. having everything custom made to order.
Aaron
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
- Messages
- 7,353
Aaron (sure sounds better than to call someone BJ ),
Yes, full custom is expensive, no question. Consignment / 2nd hand is a way to save money, another one is to go to quality but simplicity and simple materials.
I like Patrick's fantastic mokume fitting sets, but he can also make simple round tsuba un iron and give them a fairly simple finish and patina.
),Yes, full custom is expensive, no question. Consignment / 2nd hand is a way to save money, another one is to go to quality but simplicity and simple materials.
I like Patrick's fantastic mokume fitting sets, but he can also make simple round tsuba un iron and give them a fairly simple finish and patina.
- Joined
- Mar 13, 2002
- Messages
- 2,125
Jose,
Glad to see these photos! Congratulations to you! Really beautiful and sleek.
This is way out of my league, i know almost nothing (or nothing) about Japanese swords, but can admire the elements of beauty, the precision. I like aesthetic choices you made with it too, very classic.
On swords, .. I have been wanting to see a documentary i heard about on swordmaker Yoshindo Yoshihara but haven't had the opportunity yet. I have heard he is very traditional, which seems interesting.
Jose, can you say what thoughts go into choosing a maker in which to commision a sword, things that affect your decisions, and/or choices one would need to consider?
(from earlier posts i get the idea it is more involved than just getting on a waiting list for a particular type knife?)
David
Glad to see these photos! Congratulations to you! Really beautiful and sleek.
This is way out of my league, i know almost nothing (or nothing) about Japanese swords, but can admire the elements of beauty, the precision. I like aesthetic choices you made with it too, very classic.
On swords, .. I have been wanting to see a documentary i heard about on swordmaker Yoshindo Yoshihara but haven't had the opportunity yet. I have heard he is very traditional, which seems interesting.
Jose, can you say what thoughts go into choosing a maker in which to commision a sword, things that affect your decisions, and/or choices one would need to consider?
(from earlier posts i get the idea it is more involved than just getting on a waiting list for a particular type knife?)
David
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2001
- Messages
- 1,152
Aaron (sure sounds better than to call someone BJ
Yes, full custom is expensive, no question. Consignment / 2nd hand is a way to save money, another one is to go to quality but simplicity and simple materials.
I like Patrick's fantastic mokume fitting sets, but he can also make simple round tsuba un iron and give them a fairly simple finish and patina.
Aaron is much better...
Here's Patrick's website, he makes fittings in all price ranges. http://taganearts.com/ My set of fittings are made of iron and cost less than Joss' menuki <gold mixed metal>. His finishes are first rate. I believe he's opened up his waiting list so you might want to order a set first. Like you say, these projects take years but at least you can budget them out in stages.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2001
- Messages
- 1,152
Thanks, David, good questions. Yoshihara also has a book that first introduced me to the history of the sword and it's contruction. Here's a link, the first two books are great intros. http://www.summerchild.com/Books.html
Steven is really the expert on all this stuff but if you read the books it gives you an idea what you need to look for. Here's another good site that explains a lot. It gets a lot of traffic, so sometimes exceeds it bandwidth, you may need to wait a few days to gain access. http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm
As far as choosing a maker, once you gain more of an understanding and appreciation you look for someone who makes what you like. Howard makes blades that are used in competition with success, are well made, beautiful and he has a good rep. If you study swordsmanship then you need the blade to be sized to your physical stature as well as to the style you're learning.
If you have tens of thousands to spend you can buy something made traditionally in Japan that would be more authentic. Here's another good site. http://moderntosho.com/index.html
- Joined
- Feb 28, 2002
- Messages
- 13,348
Here's a stupid queston from someone who knows next to nothing about swords: why is it that whenever I see a sword on a display stand, the blade is always cupped in a wad of tissue paper where it rests against the wood? Is the blade finish that fragile that stationary contact with the wood can harm it?
Roger
Roger
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2001
- Messages
- 1,152
I think so, Roger. Not sure what the grit value is but I believe the traditional polishers use stones to several thousand grit and then move onto pastes with even finer grit. I don't think it makes as much of a difference on the spine but I can imagine the polisher doesn't want to get any "dings" where the side of the blade rested. Once the customer has it hand he can do what he wants but the polisher doesn't want to hear any complaints once it's delivered...
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
- Messages
- 7,353
Patrick's work is great. I have a tsuba he made for me with a cherry blossom theme. Very simple work, plain round tsuba with a single cherry blossom piercing at the 11 o'clock point. All is forged & carved out of shakudo then patinated a deep blue-black. Great work. He's doing some nice vessel work too, now.
The menuki were made by Murad Sayen, as was the tsuba on my sword. Not Patrick's work or prices. Murad was Don Fogg's alter-ego in the Kemal endeavor.
- Joined
- Nov 20, 2001
- Messages
- 7,353
David,
Commisioning a blade for you is somewhat difficult. See, you need to decide the blade type, length, all that - things that are not obvious unless you have a pretty clear idea to start with. Then you need to book time with someone who will do the polish and mount the blade. Another wait period, andother set of decisions. The rewards are of course proportional to the difficulties. I can tell you that Jose must be feeling pretty good right now to see the whole package coming together so well. His sword has the true samurai elegance - not gaudy, all understated, but uncompromisingly made.
To buy an authentic nihonto (true Jpz sword), one of the cheapest option is to buy an antique from an established dealer like Aoi Art. Most antiques are sold in storage scabbard, but some are in full mounts and are cheap enough to be used without feeling bad. One difficulty for a "user" sword is that antiques are generally shorter than what US practitioners like.
Commisioning a blade for you is somewhat difficult. See, you need to decide the blade type, length, all that - things that are not obvious unless you have a pretty clear idea to start with. Then you need to book time with someone who will do the polish and mount the blade. Another wait period, andother set of decisions. The rewards are of course proportional to the difficulties. I can tell you that Jose must be feeling pretty good right now to see the whole package coming together so well. His sword has the true samurai elegance - not gaudy, all understated, but uncompromisingly made.
To buy an authentic nihonto (true Jpz sword), one of the cheapest option is to buy an antique from an established dealer like Aoi Art. Most antiques are sold in storage scabbard, but some are in full mounts and are cheap enough to be used without feeling bad. One difficulty for a "user" sword is that antiques are generally shorter than what US practitioners like.
- Joined
- Nov 14, 2001
- Messages
- 1,152
Hi Stephen, I can give it the old college try, but Steven really would be the best to do a write up. It would be nice to have that info on site here but a great place to get it is http://www.geocities.com/alchemyst/nihonto.htm . Not sure if Dr. Stein is a member here but maybe he can approve a sticky with this link and some basic info from his site?