Keeping it closed

Sal Glesser

Sal Glesser

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I would like to hear some discussion on "keeping a folding knife closed".

The forces that keep a knife closed directly affect how easy it is to open, safety, legality and ?.

What's the most important to you?

What is ideal?

What is safest?

What's legal?

I'm sure it's been discussed in the past, but I've not seen the discussion.

sal
 
Well Sal, for me the primary attribute is safety, followed by ease of opening and finally "legality". New Jersey's knife laws are quite vague, but they do prohibit automatic and gravity/inertial opening knives. I think one can basically assume then, that any sort of functional detent is sufficient to render the knife legal in that regard. Of the knives I own, I find my back-locks to offer what I consider the safest/most secure feeling detent. At the same time, there is no real hindrance in opening the knives. The AXIS is nearly as good in both categories, with a bit more ease of opening at the cost of slightly weaker detent. Most of my liner or frame locks also seem to sacrifice a bit of the secure detent, but at the same time do not appear (at least to me) to provide a correspondingly "easier" opening effort. Worthy of mention, in my opinion, is the Rolling Lock w/ Indraft. This seems to fall on the opposite end of the spectrum from the liner/frame locks. It provides quite a secure detent (though perhaps no more secure than the AXIS) but opening the knife and overcoming the Indraft feature is more difficult than with other knives.
 
I'm not sure I follow you for sure Sal. Are you referring to like the detent ball in liner locks and how much grab it should or should not have, how much spring tension a lock back should or should not have, vs gravity knives, vs being able to flick a knife open and not being able to and what people like and/or prefer? If so here are my thoughts.

Personally I like my knife to remain closed in my pocket and be safe to carry even if I fall on it. If I buy one that invariably ends up being noticed to be opened or have the point sticking up its most always a liner lock type at fault. I will usually pop out the detent and reinstall one that sticks out a bit more if this is the case and if it is a rarer event where the detent catches but does not quite keep the tip from being able to lift up where it can prick you or your leg its time for the factory replacement or new detent in a new place with a new hole in the blade.

On knives that can flick open easily. I rarely flick mine open. I usually open them with the thumb stud. Even the Waved knives I have are mostly used by the studs anymore. I'm also not much of a big fan of automatics or the potential for a knife opening in my pocket in anyway shape or form.

Legal? I don't know. Seems anymore that you cannot rely on just state law as a way to know the legality of the knife you carry because of the fact that many cities, particularly bigger ones have laws separate and more restrictive than the state does. Chicago vs. Illinois for example. 3" is legal in Illinois, but not in Chicagao. In the city limits which are also sometimes not marked clearly, its 2.5" max for the legal limit.

Then of course there is that all too gray area about what is an auto, and what is a gravity knife? I can't answer the question. Unfortunately most LEO can't either.

STR
 
I like a "positive feel" to a knife closing, but I don't want it to be too difficult for one-hand opening.

It's a fine line, but I will tell you that there is one production knife that got it exactly right for me--and no others have come close, by that company or any other. The model has been discontinued, but I feel sure that Sal might be able to find one. It is the Eduard Bradichansky Shabaria made by Spyderco.

Those of you that have one, open and close it a few times, and feel that "snap".

Just right.:thumbup:
 
I think it is a tough balance to strike. While I love the buttery smooth action of the ball bearing lock and axis lock, all the knives I have with them carry tip up, and frankly I worry about that. They don't close securely enough for my peace of mind, which limits my carry options to strictly the back corner of the pocket. No IWB, front corner of back pocket, or ruler pocket for these knives. The same goes for liner lock and compression lock knives. Unless they carry tip down, the options are limited.

There is also the question of legality. The laws here prohibit knives which are opened by springs or centrifugal force/gravity. The intent (I believe) was to outlaw switchblades and gravity knives, but it also covers butterfly knives and assisted openers (although the latter is generally not enforced). It also gives a cop an excuse to confiscate your knife if he can open it with a wrist flick. Heck, if he wanted to, he could claim that the pocket clip moves a knife out of the realm of "ordinary pocket knife" and into the realm of "concealed weapon" and chances are the judge would back him up :rolleyes:

Overall, I prefer the security of the lockback (front, mid or back) or even the excellent UKPK notchjoint for a one hand opener.
 
I like a backspring that keeps the knife closed and will close it if opened a little. I avoid liner locks that have a detent ball because once they open a bit they stay open. I can live with a knife that locks closed even if it does not have a backspring (like I have some old Opinels and I filed down the ring to lock them when closed, new ones now come with that).

I like a knife that is easier to open than to close, even if it does not have a lock, like in a slipjoint the tang can be round on the bottom and squarish on the top.

I'm an old timer and long time slipjoint user, so I may think different than the younger generation.

Luis
 
Padawan said:
Well Sal, for me the primary attribute is safety, followed by ease of opening and finally "legality". New Jersey's knife laws are quite vague, but they do prohibit automatic and gravity/inertial opening knives. I think one can basically assume then, that any sort of functional detent is sufficient to render the knife legal in that regard. Of the knives I own, I find my back-locks to offer what I consider the safest/most secure feeling detent. At the same time, there is no real hindrance in opening the knives. The AXIS is nearly as good in both categories, with a bit more ease of opening at the cost of slightly weaker detent. Most of my liner or frame locks also seem to sacrifice a bit of the secure detent, but at the same time do not appear (at least to me) to provide a correspondingly "easier" opening effort. Worthy of mention, in my opinion, is the Rolling Lock w/ Indraft. This seems to fall on the opposite end of the spectrum from the liner/frame locks. It provides quite a secure detent (though perhaps no more secure than the AXIS) but opening the knife and overcoming the Indraft feature is more difficult than with other knives.
Click to expand...
Do you think a Mini Grip would be legal to edc in NJ?? I have been having that dilemma lately.
 
Most clipped folders require tip up carry, as that is the only option offered. My favorite carry knives are capable of tip down carry and gravity works for them rather than against them on the issue of opening up.

On knives marketed and suitable for self defense, speed and lockup strength are paramount and every other lock issue secondary.

On obvious work knives, speed is less important than the blade staying put, opened or closed.
 
I feel much more comfortable with tip down carry and initial resistance to opening should be stiff whether ball dentent or spring. I figure I'll get used to it.

Another option is a conveniently located safety which, ideally would be capable of locking the blade open or closed. The safety should not drift but stay in the on or off position unless the user moves it.

I agree with others who say legality is hard to pin down. If you are stopped, alot depends on the officers attitude.
 
I like a knife to stay closed until I open it. It's the one thing I dislike most about linnerlocks. Almost all of them are fairly easy to slip open just a little, like a drop on the floor and boom they are open. Staying closed is even more important to me than how strong the lock is. Ease of opening just hasn't been a problem for me, I haven't had a problem opening any of them. :)
 
Applejacks said:
Do you think a Mini Grip would be legal to edc in NJ?? I have been having that dilemma lately.
Click to expand...

While the law is again rather vague, I believe it would indeed be considered legal in that respect. For what it's worth, I carry my Doug Ritter M2 Mini RSK-1 all the time.
 
I prefer tip up carry with a knife that will stay closed. While one handed opening is nice, it doesn't have to be fast for me. I prefer springs on the stiff side. I can still work them, but usually don't work them quickly. No waved knives for me. I vastly prefer security to "coolness".
 
I only carry Tip Down knives, I had a LE buddy that wanted a Tip Up and since mech that kept the knive closed was not doing its job he got bitten pretty badly and had to have 4 stitches on the tip of his finger.

I really like those knives that have the spring mechanism that pulls the blade into the handle (activated within the last 1/2" to 1/4" inch of closing). Don't really know what to call this action (or the Mech) but to me this makes for a very secure feeling in a knife.

I do enjoy being able to hold my Spyder by the Hole (while closed) and flips the handle outward for opening, but I have never had to do that except just practicing. With that said, I would accept a slightly stiffer action if the knife stays securely closed properly.

Hope this helps.
 
When I'm choosing edc knives legality is tops for me. As far as staying closed in the pocket imo lock backs and slip joints are the safest followed by tip up carry then tip down. That being said nine times out of ten you will find a tip down liner lock in my pocket.
1. Legality
2. Ideal
3. Safety
would be my order but I've managed to cut or poke myself with all styles over the years so I don't trust any of them 100%

Helle
 
The axis lock on my 806 will pull itself closed anywhere within about 1 1/2 - 2 inches from being closed. It would have to be an extreme condition where it would become openned in the pocket or otherwise unintentionally. As for a liner lock, I'd want it to stay as securly closed as possible -as long as it openned smoothly and fast once the the safety mechanism was defeated. I think that most lockbacks pull themselves closed pretty well too. -Similarly to the axis.
 
Sal

I'd say that what is ideal and whats safest are close to the same.

Whats legal varies so much depending on where a person is.

I'd say that a knife that drops open when I hold it up so the blade could drop by gravity, is too loose. A smidge more tension than that is also probably a bit too loose.

I have always found your folders, and most others, for that matter, to be just fine, depending on the torsion I set on the pivot screw.

Its hard to define, but there certainly is "too loose" and "too tight".

This question is so simple, its actually quite a ponder!
 
Sal Glesser said:
I would like to hear some discussion on "keeping a folding knife closed".

The forces that keep a knife closed directly affect how easy it is to open, safety, legality and ?.

What's the most important to you?

sal
Click to expand...

My order of priority:
1) staying open when I want it open.
2) Staying closed when I want it closed.
3) Legality
distant 4) ease of opening.

Ease of opening is far down the list of factors that affect my choice of knives. Of the factors you list, safety is by far the most important thing. It has to stay open while I'm trying to use it and it has to stay closed when I have it in my pocket. (I'm not into wearing Kevlar shorts.) It should not pop open if by mischance I should drop it. If I can open it one handed, I am happy. I do not want to flick any knife open. My Native III opens just right. Takes a reasonable effort to open, but opens quite smoothly one handed. Thank you very much, sir, wonderful knife.
 
i have an buck strider tanto with liner lock and tip up carry. reaching into my pocket while hiking to withdraw the blade had opened up enough for me to stick my finger. it doesn't bother me mostly about a knife staying closed but i believe in this case that knife should be a tip down carry. as it clearly does not have enough force holding it closed to prevent the blade from opening just from the jarring effect of walking.
 
I only carry tip up. From time to time I EDC about 5 different Spyderco models, a BM Axis model and a Kershaw framelock model. I've never had an issue with any of the knives opening in my pocket.

I know the AO opening knives are very popular, but I would not carry one because: (1) I worry about them accidentally opending in my pocket, and (2) the posibility of it being considered a "switchblade" knife under some state or municipal laws.

SAL - thread drift - I'd love a Para-Military with a tip-up clip!!
 
Of all my one-hand openers, the knife that has the best combination of safety and ease of opening is my Para. I like it a lot better than my linerlock, lockback, and axis lock knives.

It has enough resistance keeping the blade closed that it has never come open when I didn't want it to, which is more than I can say for some of my other knives. And the combination of the large opening hole and great ergonomics make it a breeze to open.

I also much prefer a tip down carry.
 
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