Keeping it closed

Besides the previously mentioned direct relationship with ease of opening, the only issue I have with opening knives is the "carpet test".

I'll drop a knife a few times on a carpet to see if, and how often, it opens.

It is NOT a decision breaker for me. Most of the knives I own and carry open when dropped. Just something I do after an incident years ago where I cut my foot.
 
most important to you?

speed and ease of use, lock and pivot dependability. staying closed pocketed. liner-lock

ideal?

easy/medium opening-strength. same with closing. stay closed pocketed. framelock


safest?

easy opening, little strength required. easy closing. strong closed position ball detent. mid-lock with plenty of choil to catch the index finger

legal?

beware of AO's/auto's. it's a worlwide puzzle that no one will solve. in my country AO's and auto's up to 3.6" are legal, provided they are single edged, and no hand-guard, and powered by a spring.
 
A knife needs to stay closed until it is intentionally opened. That's why, even though I own several high end frame lock folders, deep down I still prefer a lock back.

It's at least as important that a knife also stay open until it's intentionally closed. Every variation of a locking mechanism used in the knives in my collection does a perfectly adequate job in this regard, including the "notch lock" (slip joint) on the UK Pen Knife that's currently in my pocket -- the key being quality of design and construction rather than the particular locking mechanism.

Smooth is good, when talking about opening. However, since I don't flick my knives, ease of opening isn't as important.

Legal isn't really much of an issue where I live.
 
I honestly like a knife that I can just flip open with my wrist. IMO a knife needs just enough stick to keep shut then a smooth action from there (I've filed the ball down on more then one liner lock) this being said it is importiant for a knife to stay shut, I have never had a knife just open on it's own, maybe because usually carry point down?
 
A really interesting thread with some well considered responses.

I would have to say safety would be a high priority for me. Speed of opening doesn't matter that much. One handed opening is a plus, particularly when fishing. Legality ? - not something I really consider. The only folders that are clearly illegal where I live are automatics, gravity knives and bali style. I have owned all three in the years before they were prohibited and probably wouldn't own any now even if they weren't restricted.

On the safety subject, for years I mostly carried folders in leather belt sheaths and the matter of unintentional opening wasn't relevant as the sheath prevented this. The main safety issue with those knives was lock integrity.

I have owned and used a few liner locks but can't get to like them. The conventional back lock is my preferred option. This is not a crticism of innovative lock types, just a personal preference.

I notice quite a few posters raising the tip up/down subject for pocket clip knives. I have always carried these knives tip up for the simple reason that the only pocket clip knives I had (Spyderco and Cold Steel) were made that way. Not long ago I acquired a Spyderco Centofante 3 with a tip down clip arrangement and I really struggled getting used to it. I just picked up a Delica 4 which came by default with tip up and put away the Centofante in favour of it.

Then I started reading this post and tend to agree with some of you that tip down makes some sense from an accident avoidance point of view. I just took out my Torx set and switched the clip on the Delica to tip down. It doesn't feel right but this might just be conditioning. I will leave it like that for a week or so and see if I can make the transition. It sure feels weird, more so when you fold the knife and go to put it away and the clip is at the wrong end.
 
Most of my liner or compression locks don't stay closed very well.

Would a combination with a rare earth magnet be an idea?
 
I want my knife to stay the way it came, ie: stiff and not needing constant tightening or locktighting. I'd rather it be a bit stiff, same as a firearm.

I had a benchmade panther open in my front right pocket years ago. That put the blade up. and had the point stuck in the bone of my rifgt hand small finger.

At the gas station I had to attempt to conceal the spurting blood on my strong side hand as I got a napkin and wrapped the finger and paid for my gas without panicking people.My pocket was coated with blood, as was my hand up to my wrist. No one had ever told me to adjust anything on that old panther. It was a painfull but good lesson learned.

It wasn't the last time I was peforated as I worked 15 years in a prison, and the same in security, including bouncing, and 3 years as a cop. Still, it was needless. Smooth is nice, but light and too easy isn't. Thanks Sal, for everything. Joe
 
Ted Voorde said:
Most of my liner or compression locks don't stay closed very well.

Would a combination with a rare earth magnet be an idea?
Click to expand...

nice idea Ted! :thumbup: but, for now we'll have to settle for tip-down for the solution to that

@2manyknives: i tried that once the other way 'round. from tip-down to tip-up. weird feeling indeed and couldn't get used to it. tip-down for me anytime

denn
 
If you're asking, it must be a problem, but I never realized it was. I've carried pocket knives, including many of your design, for 45 years, and, except for a poorly constructed Lone Wolf auto, I've never had one open in my pocket. Including asisted openers with flippers and no safety/safety removed.

So, as far as I am concerned, whatever you and the other knife manufacturers are doing, keep up the good work :)
 
Generally carrying tip up against the seam of the pocket I am not to concerned with the opening of the knife in the pocket.
I prefer enough resistance on closing to be able to feel (and hear) the knife is closed as it is something I do almost subconsciously which to me is more important than being able to flick it open which I hardly ever do in real use.
 
I'm not sure what you are really asking Sal but I like a knife that closes with a reasuring click. Positive blade retention in the closed position is important but not at the expense of being able to open the knife.

What do I know, I have been carrying a single blade slipjoint the last couple of weeks.
 
Sal Glesser said:
I would like to hear some discussion on "keeping a folding knife closed".

The forces that keep a knife closed directly affect how easy it is to open, safety, legality and ?.

What's the most important to you?
Most important is that when it's open, it stays open, when it's closed, it stays closed
What is ideal?
My Calypsos, Calypso Jr.s, wally-world Natives are excellent folders. My Native III has a better handle, better blade shape than the regular Native, but it gets very little posket time because it's so tight that it is not a one hand opener(for me)
What is safest?
My personal favorite is the lock back, then the Axis lock,liner locks last
What's legal?
This is not important for me because in the area that I live in, as long as you're not committing bad acts most knives are not a problem, if you are, then nearly anything can be carrying a weapon. e.g. The Buck 110. It's over the legal limit but so many people carry them openly on the belt nobody even looks twice at them.
I'm sure it's been discussed in the past, but I've not seen the discussion.

sal
Click to expand...

Merry Christmas to all
 
Sal, to echo many of the sentiments here, what *I* look for in a lock that keeps the blade closed are;

good resistance to opening, if the blade is pulled open any angle below 30 degrees or so (approx), the lock should simply pull the blade back into the handle scales (all my Spydie lockbacks do this, they pull the blade back in quite aggresively

positive auditory and tactile feedback that the blade *IS* closed securely, i want to see, hear, and feel the blade fold into the handle with an authoritative, tactile *snap*, my Spydie lockbacks and my Victorinox SAK's do this, the Vics *DO* have a superior closing "snap* than my Spydies, there is *no* doubt when i close a SAK that it's closed

resistance to accidental deployment, in order to open my knife, *I* need to take positive action to thumb it open or pull it open via nail-nick, i also perform the carpet drop test, SAK's and lockbacks invariably pass with flying colors, framelocks don't fare so well, ball locks are unpredictable

basically, in "real world" use, i've found my Vics and lockback Spydies utterly reliable and have no problem trusting them completely, my framelock Spydies (Cricket and Karambit) *DO* open with an authoritative click and lock securely with no sign of bladeplay, however, they lack the authoritative, positive *snap* on closing that i find in my lockbacks/slipjoints, they feel slightly "mushy" when closing, and lack any true resistance to opening or bias-towards-closed, i *know* they're safe, and i do trust them (well, i trust the Cricket, the Karambit scares even *ME* ;) ) i just wish they gave a more positive signal that they were closed

when i had a Benchmade Minigrip for a few weeks (i decided i didn't like it and sold it), i never felt confident in the Axis Lock, the use of fragile appearing springs to hold the lockbar in place seemed like a flawed design from the start, techie for the sake of being techie, too mechanically complex for it's own good and far too many potential failure points, i know this isn't the case, and the Axis is one of the best locks out there, but i never truly felt comfortable with it, i get a similar feeling from the Spydie ball-bearing lock, i know it's a reliable, simple lock, but after dissasembling my Delica 4 trainer just for the heck of it, to see how it was put together, and seeing how simple a lockback really *IS* (lockbar, bent spring and spring holder) the BB lock seems, well, overdesigned and "complicated"

the Dodo responds randomly to the carpet drop-test, sometimes opening slightly, sometimes not, i *have* pushed the blade of the Dodo open a couple times when carrying in pocket, thankfully, i was pushing on the swedge and was able to close the blade before it drew blood

so, to make a long post longer, i prefer lockbacks, not the most sophisticated lock by a longshot, but simple, time tested, and reliable, that bias-towards-closed feature is really important for a pocketknife, and slippies and lockbacks do it well

now that i own a D4 Wave, i have all the advantages of a fast-opening "assisted opening" blade, with the time-tested safety of the lockback, and as an added advantage, the Wave gives me the versatility of being able to decide if i want to "assist" the opening of the blade by using the Wave, or simply draw it straight up and not wave it open, but open it manualy, as an added advantage, a safety lock (like on the Kershaw/Onion SpeedSafe knives) is not needed
 
I would order them as: safety (in terms of preventing accidental openings), then ease of opening/fun-ness, then lock integrity, and legality last. The legality issue is on the backburners because here in Canada they can hassel you over most lock configurations so you might just as well use one you enjoy.
 
I want my folders to stay closed in my pocket. Also, lately Canada Customs has been confiscating quite a few knives because they are easy to flick open. Being more secure in the closed position would be a good thing in that circumstance.
 
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