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Ken onion work sharp-blade grinding attatchment problem

Discussion in 'Maintenance, Tinkering & Embellishment' started by Bo-dacious, Jan 5, 2018.

  1. Rey HRH

    Rey HRH

    860
    Oct 6, 2014
    That's where I'm at. I have the full line of DMT diamond stones and a couple of Shaptons. They're sitting inside a tool chest. I don't need them as I get much better and faster edges on the worksharp.
     
    Alsharif likes this.
  2. indawire

    indawire Gold Member Gold Member

    373
    Dec 26, 2011
    I sharpened for years freehand and got decent at it but grabbed the chance to get the WSKO model at a sale price, $129 if I recall. I reprofiled and tuned up a friends EDC knives and he liked the idea so much he bought the base model at Tractor Supply on sale at Christmas for $69. Now that I've tried both models, I think it's worth spending the extra on the KO model. Much more substantial feel to it, like the wider 3/4" belts, like the additional dial-in angle options. I line up the kitchen knives at the end of the week and tune 'em up all at once while I'm waiting for dinner. After some practice, for users that my wife abuses it's a no brainer. YMMV:p
     
  3. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Its a way to asses/judge your edge quality / sharpening progress and angle control before/after every belt/stone.

    After you raise a burr on first belt/stone you should be to slice newspaper, snaggy yes, but a slice,
    and it should gets smoother slicing and more push cutting on subsequent belts/stones.


    Common mistake is moving onto finer stones before the coarse stone has done its work.


    if an edge was particularly dull/thick, burrs can form (or just feel like it) before the two sides of the edge meet at an apex.

    First sharpening can take many more strokes due to uneven factory bevels, angle changes... so it takes as many strokes as it takes on your first/coarse belt.


    I only now noticed that you wrote
    Also, Rey HRH, at what grit can you cut paper? Because right now I'm at 12000 with a strop and Just being able to cut paper.


    So you probably need more strokes on the coarse belt ,

    test cut newspaper after every belt, it should steadily get smoother cutting

    after your final belt,
    test cut newspaper,
    after to make sure there is no super tiny burr remaining,
    slice into some wood (pencil, popsicle stick)
    and then test cut paper again,
    if the edge is duller than previous test cut,
    go back and do one pass per side on the belt/stone







    0.1875 inch or 4.7625 mm max flexing/bending of the belt after you apply pressure?
    Thats from page 25 of manufacturers manual https://www.worksharptools.com/media/mconnect_uploadfiles/w/s/wskts-ko_ug_-_8-16.pdf

    Looking at the following the flex shown looks about 3/16
    Ken Onion Edition - Instructional Video on Vimeo

    So you're probably light enough if you resemble the video




    The manual has a tip for that, says Outdoor Knives • No Edge Guide,
    which means you have to keep blade vertical without guide,

    but you can probably compensate by using the lowest angle setting
    After you figure it out this might make interesting reading :) calibration-results-from-my-wsko-bga-actual-apex-angle-vs-tool-setting.1528884


    Good luck
     
  4. Megabassx7

    Megabassx7

    353
    Jan 1, 2016
    The belts shouldn’t flex very much at all. Especially if you are using the pulleys in the closest position. My guess is your knife has too much metal behind the edge and it to obtusive of an angle. What are steels? Angles? Getting a bur on every belt minus the 12000? If your blades are thin yet or your angle isn’t too fat than I would say lower the speed on the courser belts and gradually increase speed as you progress and use enough pressure so blade contacts the belt enough to not get a choppy feeling as you pull across at higher belt speeds.

    I have over 2 years with unit and all the perks and disadvantages of it. It’s very impressive to say the least but discouraging to new comers especially if things like this happen or your belt scuffs your titanium handles on a 300 dollar zt. Don’t ask how I know
     
  5. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016
    Cbwx34: I'm getting a lot better. Cuts paper easily when I drag the knife but not then I just tap the edge into the edge of the paper. I do basically all of that stuff you said, but what do you mean check if it's sharp? What method do you use to see if it's sharp?
    I think my problem is the angle I keep the knife at with my left arm. But I'm buying circular (all directions) level to set on my knife. I hope that helps.


    Indawire:
    On the edge you put, can you cut paper even though it's not a mirror polish?

    Thanks for the help guys!

    Bo
     
  6. cbwx34

    cbwx34

    Dec 27, 2004
    Test how you're testing now... making a slice thru paper will work fine... whatever you want to use to see if it's working.

    Sounds like now you just need some practice.

    And I'll answer the other question... you can definitely cut paper without a mirror polish. :)
     
  7. bucketstove

    bucketstove

    Sep 23, 2014
    Hi,
    how do you "tap into the paper edge"?
    Its not a trick question,
    I couldn't do it when I first tried using brand new utility blade or one of those snapoff razors ,
    the trick for me was and still is,
    to PROP/REST BLADE AGAINST FINGERS holding paper and push down while not cutting my fingers
    I just didn't have enough knife time to do it any other way (still don't ALMOST)

    PROBLEM IN GETTING PUSH CUTTING SHARPNESS IS NOT THE ANGLE
    as long as whatever wrong with it is consistent enough and not just wild 0-90 angle variation every stroke
    and you don't got no big foldy burr

    not being able to push cut paper, once you get the finger/hand technique,
    is probably cause your apex is under shaped,
    which can happen if you wobble wildly when sharpening on a stone,
    which for me was like 30 degree swing when i started, then down to half that
    the solution is just more strokes
    if you take a stroke and it doesn't get sharper or raise/flipp a burr,
    then just take another one


    so, left side angle is not a problem if consistent ...
    but the total inclusive angle might be a problem
    high angles (20dps aka 40 inclusive and higher )
    make it more tricky to push cut papers

    and remember
    wood workers with their chisels and hand planes and dove joints and 8k stones
    and culinary cooking school cooks
    both use printer paper as their push cutting test
    cause its wood their knives eat in the end
     
  8. Megabassx7

    Megabassx7

    353
    Jan 1, 2016
    Can you post a picture of your edge?
     
  9. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016
    Cbwx34: I've been working with work sharp to solve the problem. I realized that on one of the knives Im doing, the angle was off so I used a round level and a magnet to attatch it to the knife. I'm now getting a much bigger burr. But it's still not super sharp. Should I be able to get a knife to where I can cut paper just by tapping the edge of the piece of paper or are you supposed to have to drag the knife when you cut the paper? At what grit should it cut paper without having to drag?
    Also, when you say check if the knife is Sharp after every grit, what do you mean? What should I test it on? It's hard for me to tell.

    Indawire: are you having no trouble with the blade grinder attatchment? How sharp are you getting it on there? Can you cut paper easily? Or what other method do you use to test sharpness?

    Thanks a lot for the help guys,

    Bo
     
  10. Megabassx7

    Megabassx7

    353
    Jan 1, 2016
    What knife are you trying to sharpen? Push cutting paper is going to be very hard with a big fat blade and a fat angle. If it’s typical edc type blade than yes you can get it to push cut relatively easy. Especially if your inclusive angle is 30 or under. My next question is where are your pulleys set? A picture of the edge could really help all of us tell you what’s going on
     
  11. ecallahan

    ecallahan Gold Member Gold Member

    640
    Mar 14, 2011
    If your knife is sharp you should be able to slice through paper (I use phone book paper). Push cutting through paper requires greater sharpness than slicing. If you can slice all 4 directions through phone book paper your knife is plenty sharp to use for everyday tasks.
     
    Last edited: Jan 27, 2018
  12. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016
    OK I didn't see all. The responses on the second page until now as I didn't see the second page button. Thank you to everyone for the help. I've got a knife with a scandi grind to push cut paper pretty well. I don't know what I did different other than It was a scandi grind and I used less stroked. Too many stroked won't dull the blade will it? Where do I go to add a picture?

    Thanks again,

    Bo
     
  13. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016
    Oh, and right now my pulleys are the far apart position. I tried them ad the close position but didn't notice a difference. Where should they be?

    Thanks,

    Bo
     
  14. Rey HRH

    Rey HRH

    860
    Oct 6, 2014
    I tried them in the close position and I ran into the problem of sometimes hitting the portion of the belt riding on top of the lower roller. If you notice, the belt is higher in the middle because of a rubber ring in the middle of the roller. I think this is to help move the roller along with the belt. If you only use small blades like under 2 1/2", I suppose the close position is okay.

    The wider position just means you really need a light touch so as not to depress the belt and round your edge.
     
  15. cbwx34

    cbwx34

    Dec 27, 2004
    Sorry, lost track of this thread... looks like you got your questions answered though.

    Are you talking about the rubber O-ring on the drive shaft? I took mine off... works fine, and belt runs flatter.

    I've never seen a rubber ring on either of the top rollers.
     
  16. Rey HRH

    Rey HRH

    860
    Oct 6, 2014
    You're right. I've seen the groove impression on the higher grit/thinner belts and I have caught my blade near the lower roller. So I thought that must be where the ring is.

    I looked at the top rollers just now and it looks like each roller is made up of two pieces that "dovetail/gear" together. Where the teeth meet is certainly not smooth and that was where I was feeling it when I let the blade go down to that part while sharpening.
     
  17. Bo-dacious

    Bo-dacious

    408
    Aug 13, 2016
    OK, so should I take. The o ring out or avoid it? What position should the rollers be in?

    Thanks,

    Bo
     
  18. cbwx34

    cbwx34

    Dec 27, 2004
    My first O-ring broke... I replaced it, but in the interim, noticed that it didn't seem to make a difference if it was there or not, and did eliminate the "high spot" it created on some of the belts. So I took it off, and have never noticed a reason to put it back on.

    I think roller position equates to how much convex you want in the edge, so try both and see what works best for you. Closer together equals a flatter grind, farther apart equates to more convex in the edge. (If you're having an issue with too much pressure, I'd put them in the close position).
     

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