Ken onion work sharp-blade grinding attatchment problem

indawire said:
I've been using the Ken Onion Workshop Model, I thought you had to have some exotic diamond sharpening system that cost $600 to brag about honing a knife here:rolleyes:. I've had good luck with mine so far, I'm not going for a mirror polish (although I totally dig that) just a usable working edge on my EDC's and kitchen knives. It does take some break in period (me mostly), I started with some junkers I had out in the shed and moved up to what I EDC. The DMT and Worksmith diamond hones are sitting in the drawer now, I'm sure they will still have a place to be used.
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That's where I'm at. I have the full line of DMT diamond stones and a couple of Shaptons. They're sitting inside a tool chest. I don't need them as I get much better and faster edges on the worksharp.
 
I sharpened for years freehand and got decent at it but grabbed the chance to get the WSKO model at a sale price, $129 if I recall. I reprofiled and tuned up a friends EDC knives and he liked the idea so much he bought the base model at Tractor Supply on sale at Christmas for $69. Now that I've tried both models, I think it's worth spending the extra on the KO model. Much more substantial feel to it, like the wider 3/4" belts, like the additional dial-in angle options. I line up the kitchen knives at the end of the week and tune 'em up all at once while I'm waiting for dinner. After some practice, for users that my wife abuses it's a no brainer. YMMV:p
 
Bo-dacious said:
Bucketstove:
I'm using belts that have sharpened about 4-5 knives, 10-13 strokes per side, I haven't sliced paper with it after raising a burr, just after I remove it, why is that important?
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Its a way to asses/judge your edge quality / sharpening progress and angle control before/after every belt/stone.

After you raise a burr on first belt/stone you should be to slice newspaper, snaggy yes, but a slice,
and it should gets smoother slicing and more push cutting on subsequent belts/stones.


Common mistake is moving onto finer stones before the coarse stone has done its work.


if an edge was particularly dull/thick, burrs can form (or just feel like it) before the two sides of the edge meet at an apex.

First sharpening can take many more strokes due to uneven factory bevels, angle changes... so it takes as many strokes as it takes on your first/coarse belt.


I only now noticed that you wrote
Also, Rey HRH, at what grit can you cut paper? Because right now I'm at 12000 with a strop and Just being able to cut paper.


So you probably need more strokes on the coarse belt ,

test cut newspaper after every belt, it should steadily get smoother cutting

after your final belt,
test cut newspaper,
after to make sure there is no super tiny burr remaining,
slice into some wood (pencil, popsicle stick)
and then test cut paper again,
if the edge is duller than previous test cut,
go back and do one pass per side on the belt/stone







Bo-dacious said:
What is 3/16 deflection
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0.1875 inch or 4.7625 mm max flexing/bending of the belt after you apply pressure?
Thats from page 25 of manufacturers manual https://www.worksharptools.com/media/mconnect_uploadfiles/w/s/wskts-ko_ug_-_8-16.pdf

Looking at the following the flex shown looks about 3/16
Ken Onion Edition - Instructional Video on Vimeo

So you're probably light enough if you resemble the video




Bo-dacious said:
I think my problem is the angle I have the knife at and how it deviates from the flat angle on the guide.
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The manual has a tip for that, says Outdoor Knives • No Edge Guide,
which means you have to keep blade vertical without guide,

but you can probably compensate by using the lowest angle setting
After you figure it out this might make interesting reading :) calibration-results-from-my-wsko-bga-actual-apex-angle-vs-tool-setting.1528884


Good luck
 
The belts shouldn’t flex very much at all. Especially if you are using the pulleys in the closest position. My guess is your knife has too much metal behind the edge and it to obtusive of an angle. What are steels? Angles? Getting a bur on every belt minus the 12000? If your blades are thin yet or your angle isn’t too fat than I would say lower the speed on the courser belts and gradually increase speed as you progress and use enough pressure so blade contacts the belt enough to not get a choppy feeling as you pull across at higher belt speeds.

I have over 2 years with unit and all the perks and disadvantages of it. It’s very impressive to say the least but discouraging to new comers especially if things like this happen or your belt scuffs your titanium handles on a 300 dollar zt. Don’t ask how I know
 
Cbwx34: I'm getting a lot better. Cuts paper easily when I drag the knife but not then I just tap the edge into the edge of the paper. I do basically all of that stuff you said, but what do you mean check if it's sharp? What method do you use to see if it's sharp?
I think my problem is the angle I keep the knife at with my left arm. But I'm buying circular (all directions) level to set on my knife. I hope that helps.


Indawire:
On the edge you put, can you cut paper even though it's not a mirror polish?

Thanks for the help guys!

Bo
 
Bo-dacious said:
Cbwx34: I'm getting a lot better. Cuts paper easily when I drag the knife but not then I just tap the edge into the edge of the paper. I do basically all of that stuff you said, but what do you mean check if it's sharp? What method do you use to see if it's sharp?
I think my problem is the angle I keep the knife at with my left arm. But I'm buying circular (all directions) level to set on my knife. I hope that helps.


Indawire:
On the edge you put, can you cut paper even though it's not a mirror polish?

Thanks for the help guys!

Bo
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Test how you're testing now... making a slice thru paper will work fine... whatever you want to use to see if it's working.

Sounds like now you just need some practice.

And I'll answer the other question... you can definitely cut paper without a mirror polish. :)
 
Bo-dacious said:
Cbwx34: I'm getting a lot better. Cuts paper easily when I drag the knife but not then I just tap the edge into the edge of the paper. I do basically all of that stuff you said, but what do you mean check if it's sharp? What method do you use to see if it's sharp?
I think my problem is the angle I keep the knife at with my left arm. But I'm buying circular (all directions) level to set on my knife. I hope that helps...
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Hi,
how do you "tap into the paper edge"?
Its not a trick question,
I couldn't do it when I first tried using brand new utility blade or one of those snapoff razors ,
the trick for me was and still is,
to PROP/REST BLADE AGAINST FINGERS holding paper and push down while not cutting my fingers
I just didn't have enough knife time to do it any other way (still don't ALMOST)

PROBLEM IN GETTING PUSH CUTTING SHARPNESS IS NOT THE ANGLE
as long as whatever wrong with it is consistent enough and not just wild 0-90 angle variation every stroke
and you don't got no big foldy burr

not being able to push cut paper, once you get the finger/hand technique,
is probably cause your apex is under shaped,
which can happen if you wobble wildly when sharpening on a stone,
which for me was like 30 degree swing when i started, then down to half that
the solution is just more strokes
if you take a stroke and it doesn't get sharper or raise/flipp a burr,
then just take another one


so, left side angle is not a problem if consistent ...
but the total inclusive angle might be a problem
high angles (20dps aka 40 inclusive and higher )
make it more tricky to push cut papers

and remember
wood workers with their chisels and hand planes and dove joints and 8k stones
and culinary cooking school cooks
both use printer paper as their push cutting test
cause its wood their knives eat in the end
 
Cbwx34: I've been working with work sharp to solve the problem. I realized that on one of the knives Im doing, the angle was off so I used a round level and a magnet to attatch it to the knife. I'm now getting a much bigger burr. But it's still not super sharp. Should I be able to get a knife to where I can cut paper just by tapping the edge of the piece of paper or are you supposed to have to drag the knife when you cut the paper? At what grit should it cut paper without having to drag?
Also, when you say check if the knife is Sharp after every grit, what do you mean? What should I test it on? It's hard for me to tell.

Indawire: are you having no trouble with the blade grinder attatchment? How sharp are you getting it on there? Can you cut paper easily? Or what other method do you use to test sharpness?

Thanks a lot for the help guys,

Bo
 
Bo-dacious said:
Cbwx34: I've been working with work sharp to solve the problem. I realized that on one of the knives Im doing, the angle was off so I used a round level and a magnet to attatch it to the knife. I'm now getting a much bigger burr. But it's still not super sharp. Should I be able to get a knife to where I can cut paper just by tapping the edge of the piece of paper or are you supposed to have to drag the knife when you cut the paper? At what grit should it cut paper without having to drag?
Also, when you say check if the knife is Sharp after every grit, what do you mean? What should I test it on? It's hard for me to tell.

Indawire: are you having no trouble with the blade grinder attatchment? How sharp are you getting it on there? Can you cut paper easily? Or what other method do you use to test sharpness?

Thanks a lot for the help guys,

Bo
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What knife are you trying to sharpen? Push cutting paper is going to be very hard with a big fat blade and a fat angle. If it’s typical edc type blade than yes you can get it to push cut relatively easy. Especially if your inclusive angle is 30 or under. My next question is where are your pulleys set? A picture of the edge could really help all of us tell you what’s going on
 
Bo-dacious said:
Cbwx34: Should I be able to get a knife to where I can cut paper just by tapping the edge of the piece of paper or are you supposed to have to drag the knife when you cut the paper? At what grit should it cut paper without having to drag?
Also, when you say check if the knife is Sharp after every grit, what do you mean? What should I test it on? It's hard for me to tell
Bo
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If your knife is sharp you should be able to slice through paper (I use phone book paper). Push cutting through paper requires greater sharpness than slicing. If you can slice all 4 directions through phone book paper your knife is plenty sharp to use for everyday tasks.
 
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OK I didn't see all. The responses on the second page until now as I didn't see the second page button. Thank you to everyone for the help. I've got a knife with a scandi grind to push cut paper pretty well. I don't know what I did different other than It was a scandi grind and I used less stroked. Too many stroked won't dull the blade will it? Where do I go to add a picture?

Thanks again,

Bo
 
Oh, and right now my pulleys are the far apart position. I tried them ad the close position but didn't notice a difference. Where should they be?

Thanks,

Bo
 
I tried them in the close position and I ran into the problem of sometimes hitting the portion of the belt riding on top of the lower roller. If you notice, the belt is higher in the middle because of a rubber ring in the middle of the roller. I think this is to help move the roller along with the belt. If you only use small blades like under 2 1/2", I suppose the close position is okay.

The wider position just means you really need a light touch so as not to depress the belt and round your edge.
 
Sorry, lost track of this thread... looks like you got your questions answered though.

Rey HRH said:
I tried them in the close position and I ran into the problem of sometimes hitting the portion of the belt riding on top of the lower roller. If you notice, the belt is higher in the middle because of a rubber ring in the middle of the roller. I think this is to help move the roller along with the belt. If you only use small blades like under 2 1/2", I suppose the close position is okay.

The wider position just means you really need a light touch so as not to depress the belt and round your edge.
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Are you talking about the rubber O-ring on the drive shaft? I took mine off... works fine, and belt runs flatter.

I've never seen a rubber ring on either of the top rollers.
 
cbwx34 said:
Are you talking about the rubber O-ring on the drive shaft? I took mine off... works fine, and belt runs flatter.

I've never seen a rubber ring on either of the top rollers.
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You're right. I've seen the groove impression on the higher grit/thinner belts and I have caught my blade near the lower roller. So I thought that must be where the ring is.

I looked at the top rollers just now and it looks like each roller is made up of two pieces that "dovetail/gear" together. Where the teeth meet is certainly not smooth and that was where I was feeling it when I let the blade go down to that part while sharpening.
 
OK, so should I take. The o ring out or avoid it? What position should the rollers be in?

Thanks,

Bo
 
Bo-dacious said:
OK, so should I take. The o ring out or avoid it? What position should the rollers be in?

Thanks,

Bo
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My first O-ring broke... I replaced it, but in the interim, noticed that it didn't seem to make a difference if it was there or not, and did eliminate the "high spot" it created on some of the belts. So I took it off, and have never noticed a reason to put it back on.

I think roller position equates to how much convex you want in the edge, so try both and see what works best for you. Closer together equals a flatter grind, farther apart equates to more convex in the edge. (If you're having an issue with too much pressure, I'd put them in the close position).
 
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