Kerambit fans, please explain this to me.

The kerambit can be a very effective self defense tool when used within it's limitations. You need to look at where the knife came from and what the idea behind it was. The kerambit is generally believed to come from the are around Malaysia. I'm not good at geography and I can't remember what that area is called specifically. The martial arts in that area evolved from people watching how animals fight. The kerambit came from the idea of an animals claw. Claws are generally used to catch and hold prey. But, when fighting, they are used for tearing through flesh. Not slicing so much as tearing. The techniques developed for the kerambit work around that. This is not a one shot kill kind of self defense tool. While someone knowledgeable about anatomy and with some skill could cut an artery, or a low line cut to the abdominal cavity, producing death, the idea is to strike with raking shots that tear through muscle and weaken the opponent for the kill or in self defense just deter the bad guy. This is also a very good tool to use for types of trapping techniques, we go back to the animal catching its prey.

I have done a little training with a kerambit and can tell you it will cut very well indeed!

That is about the sum of my knowledge. There are many here who have more extensive knowledge and can give a better explanation. Or, correction of they see something I have wrong.

Many have argued that a kerambit is not a good weapon because of what is viewed as small hooked blade that isn't versatile or that can't penetrate deep enough to cause incapacitating injury. Also, many feel that if you have multiple layers of heavy clothing on, those layers of "armor" will make the kerambit even more ineffective. Or a fat person could render it less effective having to go through layers of fat to get to anything remotely vital. That is very possible as the knife comes from an area where people don't wear a lot of clothes nor are they very fat. However, man has a way of discarding things that don't work and the kerambit has remained with us for a very long time. Used within it's limitations, it can be very effective.

That is why anything you choose to use for self defense, you need to learn what its strengths and weaknesses are. Whether it's a martial art, a blade, a gun,a cane, a club, pepper spray, tazer, ball point pen or abusive language, learn what your choice can and can't do. The most valuable tool in self defense is your brain!

Walking Man - I have cut myself more times with a convetional knife than with a kerambit when training.
 
Originally posted by brownie0486
tonyccw:

The knife is not an accident waiting to happen. It has nothing to do with the knife in my opinion but everything to do with the person wielding it [ the same as any other form of edged weapon, or any weapon for that matter including a gun ].

User error, ya thats more likely. An inanimate object is an accident waiting to happen? It does not have a mind of it's own, the person weilding one in a way that is beyond their training would be prone to the accidents.

Stay sharp out there.

Brownie
Click to expand...
Brownie: that was my point. I've don't expect anyone to pick up a kerambit and start twirling it. And I don't expect anyone who's twirled a kerambit proficiently to think that they'll never get nicked. I've got a few scars from my kerambits to know to treat them with respect. Same goes for my bali's. Point was, if you're afraid of the knife, it'll bite you. And with the kerambit's tendency for twirling, accidents will happen.
 
Well, there is a reason why the kerambits are still being used after at least a hundred of year. Perhaps they're not much for utility knife, but they sure can do heavy damage as a weapon.

I believe that every knife, whether it's fantasy or practical in design, can be used as a weapon/tool depending its quality, even Hibben fantasy knives. If it can cut, it's a weapon. According to history, Indonesians used to fight the enemy with sharpened bamboos. If sharpened bamboos can be used as a weapon, why can't decently made sharpened steel ? Well, enough about the fantasy stuff.

kerambits may not be as effective as you think, but there are a lot of good techniques that can only be applied when using kerambits.

Have you taken any kerambit lessons ?

About the point, it may be dangerous if you don't know how to use the kerambit. Once you get used to that feature, the danger can be avoided. Just think about this example. If you give a knife (even when the knife has a big guard) to a 3 year old, there's a good chance he'll cut himself. BUT, with a proper training and common sense, he'll be able to avoid it. I think it's the same for kerambit. Beside, you WILL get cut in a knife fighting even when you came out as the 'winner'.
 
I personally have very little interest in owning a kerambit. I do not find the design practical for my personal use, nor do I have the money to afford a well made custom.

This, however, does not mean that they are impractical or inneffective. I have seen too many training clips with this knife to even think about attacking it's effectiveness. Brownie is right, it is a tool. There are different brushes for house painting, oil on canvas, and watercolors. None of the artisans employing their chosen profession would even attempt to trade tools with each other, as the compatability of the tool with the form is paramount to a successful completion of the job at hand.

Personally, I would take care to respect anyone that takes the time and patience to learn and train in the effective use of such a blade.

Walking Man: I do not have the experience with kerambits that many others on this forum do, but I can certainly understand your concern over the sharpened back edge. I would assume (if I were prone to assumption) that with the finger ring, a hand is less likely to drift up into the edge. This, however, is merely speculation.
 
SC_Steel:

Your assumption there is astute sir.

As to double edge kerambits, anyone live in a state that they can carry one legally?

Throughout the thread I did not realize others were thinking of the double edged kerambits. I have two Tarani Blade-techs folders. The outside edge is not sharpened.

On the straight Tarani, I ordered the outside edge as false to be able to carry it legally where I live. If the outside edge is false, do the people questioning the kerambits "bite" characteristics still feel the same way?

Brownie
 
Anyone having a problem thinking the small 3" kerambit blade would not be sufficient to do another human in? Read below: then decide if you "need" anything larger to be effective.

This came from a poster at the highroad from a published
article. _________________________________________________________________
http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/local...0Bear Stabbed

Man armed with knife kills hungry bear

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

WILLIAMS LAKE, British Columbia -- John Hirsch went toe-to-claw with a black bear - and won.

Hirsch had only a 3 1/2-inch knife blade when he came across the bear in his backyard in Williams Lake, about 190 miles northeast of Vancouver.

"He came out of nowhere," said Hirsch, 61, an avid hunter and outdoorsman.

"I can remember thinking that he's not stopping - he's coming," said Hirsch. "I just didn't feel I had any place to go."

He was attacked Oct. 29 while checking on the 15 turkeys he and his wife, Sharon, raise on their spread.

As the bear began to circle him, Hirsch faced it like a wrestler in a ring.

"It was like a knife fight that you'd see in an old-time Western," he said. The bear swatted out at him, but each time it lunged, he managed to stab it.

"I couldn't tell you if the fight lasted three seconds or three minutes," Hirsch said.

Three stabs to the bear's chest and one to its neck finally did the bruin in.

It stood about 5 foot 7 inches to Hirsch's 5 feet 9 inches and weighed 200 pounds, according to conservation officers who inspected it.

"I can say it sure looked smaller the next morning than it did during the fight," said Hirsch.

The bear was in poor shape, suffering from a severed tongue and broken jaw, the conservation officer said. Its stomach was empty and the bear had little fat on it.

Hirsch, a retired electrical foreman at B.C. Hydro, suffered a scratch to the top of his head and scratches to his back - and a shredded T-shirt.

As for the battle itself, Hirsch said it never occurred to him that he would lose to the bear.

"I just felt that however long this took, I was going to come out OK," he said. "I always felt that I was at least his equal."

Stay sharp

Brownie
 
he's a very lucky person
if the bear had been in better shape this would probably read "bear eats man"
 
DEA:

Agreed, yet it is interesting to note the balde length was sufficient.

A motley bear that is starving/emaciated would still have more strength than an average man.

Goes to show that all that much blade length is not necessary as others believe who post the kerambits blade is too "small" to be effective.

Yes, luck played a big part in the outcome above. Doesn't it always when you are defending against one with either claws and/or daggers [ as in straight blade or kerambit ]?.

Brownie
 
a 3" blade and determination/will to live are far and away better than a machete in the hands of someone who wouldnt use it.
 
There is one detail about the shape of the kerambit blade that I'd like to point out. I'm not criticizing the design; just giving equal press to some of its drawbacks now that we've heard about the plusses.

During a slash, if the point of the blade leads the edge, the blade will try to pull itself deeper into the cut as it stabs thru rather than bounce out. That's a good thing.

However, by presenting the blade this way, like a hook or claw, it can also catch on things that are not easily cut, such as bone. If, during such a cut, the blade catches a bone, it must either stop immediately (and not continue cutting, but might stab the full blade depth if it isn't already) or rock in your grip so it can slide around/past the bone with the rear of the edge leading. Thus, it will either make a cut far less damaging than indended, or will slide around the bone just like a normal blade would, thereby giving up all its supposed strengths.

Of course, against fleshy areas where no bone is near the skin surface, such as the abdomen or maybe thighs and buttocks, this will not be a factor. Neither would I worry about it against an extremely obese opponent. (not that I'd worry about it anyway.)

Again, just kinda nit picking here, but I felt someone should mention it.
 
I'd be happy in that scenario if the blade caught a rib and stopped cold and didn't ride over the bone as a normal blade would.

Here's why:

Imagine having hooked the tip on a rib. He's effectively become a pig on a short stick. Who here thinks they would not be trying to get their body off the force of the knife in their body when resistance of the rib was felt in lieu it just passing through on it's way outbound?

I rather think it would be a serious attention getter where the one stuck may just have to move where I want him to go. OOOHHHH, the pain of it all to think whay that woud feel like.

So, is that a plus or minus of the blades design? Only you can decide how you would feel being stuck on the blades edge while it is trying to [ with force ] get past the resistance. OOHHH, the pain of it all. I think I'd rather take the cut from a regular knife and not be stuck on a short stick myself.

Brownie
 
I posed the same scenario The Possum brought-up to Guro Ray Dionaldo. He kinda gave an evil grin and gave a similar answer as Brownie "Just drag his ass around a bit". Also consider the leverage and rotation you could put on the Kerambit (via the ring) if it was stuck somewheres, something that might be difficult with a bloodied straight profiled blade.
Stay Safe,
Clyde
 
Interesting observation, Brownie. You may indeed be right that this is a potential "plus" of the blade design. But, as we all know, to get a plus in one scenerio, we often have to compromise by giving something up in another. I can think of another entirely possibly scenerio where a blade that stops cold mid-cut is undesireable. Such as the wrists & forearms. A cut to the top of the forearm will hit the ulna, and if the slightly hooked blade stops there, it will only make a skin deep cut 1-2 inches long. If it slides past the bone, it could also sever a tendon or muscle or two on the inside of the forearm as it continues cutting downward. So in this case, the kerambit would again only be only equal to or less destructive than a normal blade.

Like someone has said, it is more important to know about these strengths and weaknesses beforehand, and train accordingly.
 
Okay, lets take the wrists in your example.

I am using it in forward grip like a sraight blade. I "defang" with the straight blade, I cut the inner edge of the wrist and get tendons, muscle and touch the bone where it rolls off the wrist and I'm ready in an instant for another pass.

Or, maybe I run that same straight blade up the arm, taking a fillet of sorts from the wrist to the exit somewhere on the forearm. If it doesn't exit, I have filleted a bit but it has not fallen on the floor.

Take the kerambit in the same "defang" on an incoming wrist. With the same slashing motion as before, the tip digs into the wrist at roughly a 90 degree angle/ mabye at a 45 degre angle dependant on how you catch it, or somewhere in between those two.

The tip digs in, you start to retract but the tip is imbedded and I keep the pressure on the wrist, as the knife is turned to sit lengthwise along the forearm, it digs further toward the hand, actually staying inside and the tip passing through the finger bones until it exits as you retract from the cut.

Now you have two forearms, to wrists, two hands, each with only half the material as the original equipment. Think that would hurt some?
I do not want the tip sunk into me for if I retract I'll not be rolling the knife off the arm to the bone but destroying the limb, cutting as you retract and not so much rolling off the bone.

If you can visualize what I'm saying, you'll understand the the tip will get you more damage than a straight whose "edge" has been used and the tip never came into play in that sceanrio.

Thats just one option and possibility. Care to take the chance the tip digs into the wrist and performs as it could in the above scenario? I know I don't want to, thats for sure.

The above possibility could be executrd on purpose if one had the presence of mind to keep the pressure on the wrist after making contact.

If I get the tip into you, and I don't see how I can't by the blades design, you are in for a bad time of it if you pull away.

Brownie
 
Yes, that would be another way this blade shape would excel, if you can pull it off. I think we could keep this thread going for quite a while just bouncing different scenerios off eachother that support our own opinions. :D That's a good thing too.

I will add, that for me at least, I have found that I can never seem to make those dedicated long cuts with a small blade. It's just not my style. Even when slashing, I only make a 3"-5" gash in the skin before instinct tells me to get my body away from the threat. I often think about opening them up from end to end, but have had too many close calls and just end up retracting quickly. That's probably why I tend to stab more with small blades, or throw them if I'm really close & I have a backup in my other hand.
 
all this kerambit debate that's been going on for months is just a specific blade being discussed in the forward vs reverse grip argument. It just so happens to be short and lacking a point on center.

The net benefit of using a kerambit instead of any other quality blade is zero for anyone who's smart about it.
 
hardheart,

Are you suggesting that Tarani, Dionaldo, etc are being remiss and stupid in their use of such a blade?

I hope not as they would eat most people for breakfast with that which you dismiss so casually.

BTW--They also are very adept at the conventioanl knife defense, yet the seem to have no problem at all in identifying a useful tool and actually prefer it at times over the conventional bladed knives.

One who is open minded would not dismiss something thats very effective at it's intended use with training.

I could almost guarentee that the kerambit in my hands against a person who has little or no formal training in defensive knife would be easy prey for that blade that has no point on center.

Geez, think someone has a hard time thinking out of the box and unconventionally?

As with any knife, it's effective use depends on the user/operator behind it.

If one will take the time to learn the parameters of the blade and the specific usage of the knife defensively they may have a better understanding of it's capabilities. Otherwise, it's only a personal preference thing with that individual and their statements are not based on any real world knowledge and are therefore subject to subjectiveness with no objectivity.

Thats not necessarily a bad thing, just something to consider when reading the contents of posts from the anti- crowd.

ps BTW again---the world was flat until someone found it was round through verification and objective actions. Those who sat home and did not venture out still thought the word was flat.

Stay sharp

Brownie
 
brownie and All:

brownie, I think we are going to be friends. :) Our opinions and thoughts lie along the same lines.

All -- If you haven't yet, please give Mr. Ken J. Good's article entitled "The Cult of Tactics," which appears in the May 2001 issue of American Handgunner, a read. It can be accessed online in .pdf format through linke from The SureFire Institute.

Keep open to both the past and the present.


Allen
aka DumboRAT
 
I would not say the kerambit is the end all cure all for defensive knife.

As a defensive knife instructor, I train others in conventional bladed defense, not the kerabit.

I can handle a kerambit well enough to be effective with it, but I do not know enough to teach it's use. I do, however, have enough training in knives and their use as personal defensive weapons to be able to put the kerambits design to good use if I find thats what I have at hand.

It's not for everyone, I didn't carry one today, I probably will not carry one tomorrow. That, however, does not negate the fact if I have one, I'll be succesful on the streets against the muggers and thieves who would attempt to take something from me by force or threats of
injury or death.

I'm not too concerned when I'm carrying the journeyman kerambit that I'm anymore outgunned than when I'm carrying the SnG or another "normal" folder.

Thats because I have them, have watched the tapes from Tarani, have enough skills sets to see how I will effectively use it based on my own level of training and knowledge of the design, have practiced enough with the design to feel confident I'll be no less capable, and understand that I need to change the thought process of how I'll go about using this particular weapon to "my" advantage over another.

DumboRat: I call em as I see em based on 30 years on the streets with the meanies of the world. Been there and done that, others perhaps not as much so.

A man has to know his limitations. It's my experience that most here have no real world experiences to speak of, have no real defensive knife skills, have no desire to take the time to train in these skills sets, and consequently can not comprehend how something unfamilair to most [ and themselves ] could possibly be used effectively.

Thats okay as well, to each his own. I lived the streets, know what it takes, have trained to survive with different weapons platforms for three decades+ in order to go home at night or at the end of a shift in the cruiser.

I've also taken injuries, some pretty nasty and which layed me up for months in the younger years.

Now I'm an old dog, and I'd appreciate it if you would please not hurt me. The key is I'm an old dog who has scrapped often enough to have learned a few things, taken bites from weapons, learned the lessons of the streets first hand and have a prety good idea what will work and what will not from the large database of experiences which my chosen profession forced me to learn or die.

Like I said, I'm an old dog, which means there are others out there who never had the chance to get where I am as they made mistakes, some of the bigger mistakes meant they underestimated the opponent [ me ].

Brownie
 
Jeez guys
I don't know diddly about karambits and I immediately came up with a half dozen ways to effectively use the sharpened portion nearest the hand. Seems to me it would make traps and drags devestatingly fast to reverse into thrusts and slashes. Finger through the ring prevents hand slipping onto blade right?

Brownie is gonna be effective with any blade he picks up. He'll be effective with a rock, a brick, a rope, a belt, a hockey stick, a pool cue ect. It's not because he's mastered every weapon individually...it's because he knows how to fight. Use advantages when they're presented to you and learn to recognize those advantages when you see them.
 
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