Kershaw and ZT 2020 lineup

Discussion in 'General Knife Discussion' started by Silent H, Jan 13, 2020.

  1. Therom

    Therom

    Nov 13, 2013
    Actually there are some interesting stuff in the Kershaw released
    Sinkevich makes great stuff with them
     
  2. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Platinum Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Methinks you doth protest too much. After all, let's cut to the chase: if you need a heavy, hard-use knife you can abuse "in the field", why aren't you using a fixed blade?

    This new 0308 is exactly what many people have been clamoring for, and it's what many people have been criticizing ZT for years now for getting away from. If you don't like it, that's fine, but acting like it's an inferior product because it doesn't meet your personal arbitrary (and entirely subjective) criteria is a huge stretch and again, at the end of the day, if you're looking for something bombproof to abuse, why aren't you using a fixed blade? A quality fixed blade will shrug off abuse that would break both this new 0301 AND your vaunted revered old 300 series knives. That's simply a fact.

    "They needlessly changed the hardware!" This is an entirely new product that is meant to invoke the spirit and feel of the old one, not be a direct copy. It's crazy to me that it seems this needs explaining.
     
    mqqn, Silent H, AKnife and 10 others like this.
  3. Gideons

    Gideons Gold Member Gold Member Basic Member

    Dec 9, 2015
    .
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2020
  4. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    But they are going to carry a $300 high end folder?

    You've started a few threads getting riled up over ZT through the years here. Maybe they aren't the brand for you. Have you tried cold steel?
     
  5. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Platinum Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Oh, you have a "science background", well then that makes your criticisms super objective, then (this is sarcasm as this does nothing of the kind). Actually, the fact of the matter is that this knife (which you haven't even held, seen in person, seen any objective testing or...well you know, anything really) will almost certainly perform as well as the old knife. If you're doing work that requires an additional secure point (such as the thumbstuds), it means it's work that would be better done with a fixed blade. The new knife absolutely is not "literally inferior", and frankly I'd expect someone with a "science background" to realize that their subjective opinion does not constitute a literal state or objective review of any kind. That's just embarrassing.

    Also, to your attempted rebuttal to my point, soldiers generally don't tend to carry folding knives to beat on things with in the first place, they will usually use their issued multi-tool. You know that, right? Also, talk to some actual soldiers going through survival training*, and they'll tell you that they aren't using a folding knife to do any of that. Soldiers generally aren't carrying $300 knives around in the first place, for that matter.

    Listen, you don't like the new knife, that's fine. But as yet, you've essentially based your entire premise around the subjective opinion that you don't like it and attempted to compare it to an old knife. And hey, that's fine, this is a knife forum where we get to discuss stuff, but please stop with the logical "argument from authority" fallacy. Lastly, if we're being strictly objective, the fact that the 0301 needed thumbstud bumpstops is more an indicator that the framelock wasn't the best. That was an admission on ZT's part that people would possibly abuse the knife past what just having the framelock would take (AKA: doing things better done with a fixed blade). Also, I'll take a 20CV blade over an S30v blade all day long, and twice on Sunday. So, we're at a 404: literal inferiority not found situation.


    *I know quite a few that have done field survival courses/SERE/etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2020
  6. craytab

    craytab Gold Member Gold Member

    Jan 26, 2012
    While we are making points of why the old 301 is inferior to this new knife, you forgot the big fat elephant in the room: speed safe. If that torsion bar goes, the knife blade will not stay closed in the handle on its own. That seems like a big problem for an infantry soldier in a hard use survival situation!

    One of the 301s I had, the previous owner had a closing detent added so the knife could be safely deassisted. This made the knife one million times better. I've got a scientific back ground so you can trust that. Only reason I sold that knife was because I could not get past the fact it was designed by a stollen valor scumbag. Hey! Another clear advantage this new knife has over the old!
     
  7. mwhich50

    mwhich50 Basic Member Basic Member

    Jan 18, 2011
    I have one ZT (0700?)that I bought around 10 years ago. I really like it.
    I definitely prefer Kershaw. The Chinese ones make good gifts/barter.
    I typically buy any US Kershaw that is about the same size, and quality level as the Blur. During slow years I can always buy different variations of the Launch, or the iconic Blur or Leek (series).

    [​IMG]
     
  8. Quiet

    Quiet "That guy" Platinum Member

    Oct 11, 2013
    Oooohh, that's RIGHT. Good call. Anything Mogadishu Mick has had a hand in, I want no part of. I'd have sold it too.
     
  9. sgt1372

    sgt1372 Platinum Member Platinum Member

    Oct 16, 2018
    I'm always in the mkt for another bali at a "reasonable price" and I'm in on the Lucha as soon as it's actually in stock and available for sale from retailers and before it's discontinued for "lack of interest." Retail on BHQ is $119.95 which is about what I paid for a Kimura-Bradley. $5 pre-order deposits now being taken but I'll wait.

    On the other hand, the ZT0308 doesn't do much for me.
     
  10. Rival1314

    Rival1314 KnifeMaker / Craftsman / Service Provider Knifemaker / Craftsman / Service Provider

    Aug 17, 2012
    the claims that the thumb stud/stop pin will make a stronger lockup that has any reasonable impact on the knifes performance than an internal stop pin is a claim I would love to see you prove in a quantifiable manner. Even if there is any measurable, repeatable difference in strength and integrity, the point at where it makes a difference is likely so far past the possible POU for the knife it would make no real world difference.

    I don't care if people don't like the knife, but the claims that the design changes make their structural integrity less than its predecessors is absurdly laughable (especially before they even have one in hand)...its the same kind of silly nonsense crap people have been slinging for a few years now. Personal gripes about design queues they don't like. That's great...luckily ZT does their own thing, and it seems to be doing well enough they continue to prosper in the current marketplace, and frankly I hope they continue the pace they are on. I'd love to see more American made blades, and so should everyone else here.

    Personally I think Benchmade's products for the past few years are nothing but recycled dressed up versions of their already overpriced knives...but I don't have the time or the mindset to go all around the forum crapping on the brand for no good reason and admonishing those that are excited about the designs....best of luck to those of you that do...I'm out on this one:)
     
    mqqn, grownstar, rxavage and 2 others like this.
  11. marrenmiller

    marrenmiller Basic Member Basic Member

    Apr 6, 2017
    Am a licensed professional mechanical engineer, do not care one way or the other about external thumb studs vs. a solid internal pin. Both systems can be made more than strong enough for anything you could do to it. External stop pins in the blade also come with the risk of weakening the blade due to the addition of a hole with a press-fitted stud in it (one which isn't necessarily any larger or with more contact surface on the blade and handles than an internal pin), not to mention the more realistic issue of typically putting the stud into the cutting path of the blade. I've never seen a knife handle with a properly implemented internal stop pin experience shear/bearing failure at the stop pin location, but I have seen blades with external stop pins crack. YMMV.

    I will say that I would love the 0308 if it had washers, and would even consider replacing my 0301 with it if they made that change. I quite like this new model but I'm not very happy with ZT's implementation of steel bearings. I'd love to see them make a flipper with washers like the 0200 again.
     
  12. MarkN86

    MarkN86

    421
    Sep 3, 2012
    I wanted to say the same thing but was afraid someone would jump all over me with a bunch of "Well I knew a guy who..." or "I'm _____ and I carry..." nonsense. I don't know a single LEO or enlisted soldier that carries a knife that costs much more than $50-$100. Most are much more concerned with getting the bills paid because they don't make nearly enough to blow $300 on a single folder, let alone have a collection of them. If the people who would carry a knife as a tactical knife can't afford it, then is it still a tactical knife or has it become something else?

    On top of that, if the bearings fill with sand or mud, the grip is too slippery to use, it has a bunch of springs to break, and it is hard to clean the gunk out of then is it really so great for a tactical role? When you have a bunch of gear to care for and firearms to maintain there's not time to disassemble and carefully clean a complicated folder, especially in the field where you're going to lose parts and most likely not want to keep track of a torx set. I think simplicity, good build quality, and low cost are the main reasons why the Skyline has seen so much success even though it's a light duty tool.
     
    insta9ves likes this.
  13. DocJD

    DocJD

    Jan 29, 2016
    insta9ves, Therom and marrenmiller like this.
  14. Danke42

    Danke42

    Feb 10, 2015
    I wouldn't sell it. I just put my tiger strip stuff on a shelf so they never see the light of day. Maybe ZT will grow a consisence and recall them now that the truth around that partner is in the clear.
     
  15. JJHollowman

    JJHollowman Basic Member Basic Member

    Jul 16, 2016
    I like it too, I just wonder if skeletonizing the blade that close to the pivot areas will be an issue. I think I would have preferred that remain solid. I'm sure they've tested it, did it to get good balance and they're marketing it as a flipper more than a user but I can't help but wonder if maybe it's just a bit weak around there. The cutout to the rear doesn't bother me, the side cutouts do but not as much as the big diamond in the front. I have visions of it breaking although it might be solid as a rock in all honesty.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. stonproject

    stonproject

    Nov 22, 2013
    I find it unlikely to be an issue except for maybe if it's dropped on concrete repeatedly, but thats just my hunch.
     
  17. Cogam87

    Cogam87

    115
    May 5, 2019
    Kershaw link, made in USA, 20cv steel, $83.

    Not a huge fan of assisted opening, but for that price I would give a whirl.
     
    mqqn, grownstar and Silent H like this.
  18. Chronovore

    Chronovore Basic Member Basic Member

    662
    Aug 29, 2019
    I've been a Kershaw fan since the 1990s. Have they ever not been a "budget knife company"? I've always seen Kershaw as the "budget knife" side of KAI, with ZT representing their premium side. That said, Kershaw itself runs the gamut from super-cheap Walmart knives in junk steels like 3Cr13 all the way up to premium versions of the Leek, Dividend, etc.
     
  19. onionfan

    onionfan

    449
    Nov 29, 2008
    ZT didn't become a brand till 2006 right?
     
  20. Mrgauth

    Mrgauth Gold Member Gold Member

    Mar 12, 2016
    Not feeling this at all. I’m sure many will dig it though. More choices always a good thing.
     

Share This Page