Kershaw Junkyard Dawg 2

[samhain73]

Cliff, are you saying Kershaw is misinforming people?

I didn't get that out of his post, please elaborate?

 

[beckerhead]

I didn't get that out of his post, please elaborate?

I read and re-read the post, and nothing at all portrays Kershaw as remotely deceptive. Rather a trend in general for manufacturers to run their 420hc, and AUS6, and AUS8 too soft, in an attempt to appeal to stupid people who misuse knives, by making blades less prone to break through lower hardness.

BUT, I am not Cliff, and that is just my little bitty opinion.

 

[hardheart]

Rather a trend in general for manufacturers to run their 420hc, and AUS6, and AUS8 too soft, in an attempt to appeal to stupid people who misuse knives, by making blades less prone to break through lower hardness.

this.

.....

 

[Vivi]

Which knives? The hardness has changed on these so you might have had one of the earlier softer ones. You can expect as much as a 5 point difference anyway from quoted to actual based on some of the HRC tests done on various production knives. This class of steel (low carbide) is actually designed for low angles, unfortunately most of the steels of that class (420HC, AUS-6A, etc.) are left really soft for "beater" knives, so people have really misinformed viewpoint on their maximum level of ability.

-Cliff

It's a Storm (Small, coated) made Jan 06. I did take the edge down really far, and the steel at the very cutting edge was still pretty close to where the material from the factory edge was, so it may just need a few more sharpenings to get to better steel. It didn't happen too often, just once or twice when I didn't expect it. I'll have to carry it more to see how it does.

I did take the JYD on a short walk through a patch of forest last night and did some cutting and light chopping just to get a feel for the edge. I was right about needing to take it down a bit thinner for it to be where I like my edge angles to be. Durability wise the knife was fine though. No rolling or chipping in the steel or loosening of the pivot or lock-up after chopping a bit of wood.

Under what conditions do you use a thumb ramp? Do you find it confers real advantages? As for myself I never understood why one would want to load the thumb like that instead of transferring the force to the palm.

It's always been how I used my knives, with my thumb on the spine. Just always seemed easier to control cuts for me that way, though it can get tiring. If it's prolonged, heavy cutting I might change grips, otherwise whenever holding the knife in the normal grip my thumb is up there.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Under what conditions do you use a thumb ramp?

Precision control of the point.

Rather a trend in general for manufacturers to run their 420hc, and AUS6, and AUS8 too soft, in an attempt to appeal to stupid people who misuse knives, by making blades less prone to break through lower hardness.

Yes, they are also just really cheap steels and thus used in cheap knives which have cheap heat treating processes. Thus people assume that what they have experienced is the actually upper limit of the steel. No, look at the same steel from someone who really tries to maximize the performance through heat treatment and ideal geometry.

... it may just need a few more sharpenings to get to better steel.

Yeah, that should always be done in general to get a true feeling for the steel. I tend to do something rough with a knife after a little work which cuts the edge right off as well as does a durability check (cutting materials outside, used, gritty, etc.) and then after a full sharpening judge the steel.

-Cliff

 

[Dog of War]

Under what conditions do you use a thumb ramp? Do you find it confers real advantages? As for myself I never understood why one would want to load the thumb like that instead of transferring the force to the palm.

Hi, kel_aa. I find myself doing a lot of medium-to-heavy cutting where a knife with a lot of belly, and using a rocking cut, works very well. A well-designed thumb ramp not too far out on the blade like on the JYD2 allows force to be distributed from thumb through palm and heel of hand, which for me is a lot more comfortable and much less fatiguing. I only find this so on blades in this size range, on larger or smaller blades thumb ramps tend to be either of little value, or even a nuisance to me. Also I don't like sharply jimped/grooved ramps unless I'm going to be wearing gloves, so that limits the usefulness of some.

 

[kel_aa]

Precision control of the point.

Cliff, how/when is this precise control utilized? Would you in your kitchen use it to core an apple/dig out buds in a potato using large 4 inch folders/paring knives? Would you outline a piece of suede to patch your jacket... detail a wooden figurines... carve a decorative flower out of a carrot or what not? Is that better than just choking up on the blade?

I find myself doing a lot of medium-to-heavy cutting where a knife with a lot of belly, and using a rocking cut, works very well.

So say a TV with thick cardboard is sitting in your living room after you installed your 42" LCD. You have your 2.5mm thick folder and you want to section the cardboard to recycle. I conceed that it can be a strain on the area between the thumb and the forefinger using a hammer grip as it gets lower towards the floor. I will have to compare the saber grip to see if it might distibute the force better, rather than exchanging a sore thumb for a sore palm. Do you suscribe to the increased precision offered by Cliff, in preference over choking up?

 

[Dog of War]

So say a TV with thick cardboard is sitting in your living room after you installed your 42" LCD. You have your 2.5mm thick folder and you want to section the cardboard to recycle. I conceed that it can be a strain on the area between the thumb and the forefinger using a hammer grip as it gets lower towards the floor. I will have to compare the saber grip to see if it might distibute the force better, rather than exchanging a sore thumb for a sore palm. Do you suscribe to the increased precision offered by Cliff, in preference over choking up?

If I got a new 42" LCD TV, the box might just wind up stashed behind or under the sofa for months.

Seriously, cutting a lot of cardboard wouldn't be something where I'd expect to find a thumb ramp particularly useful. What I really like for that kind of thing is a handle with a good ergonomic swell further back that gives good grip for slicing on a pull, plus a blade-handle configuration where you're really close to the edge if you want to choke up, no choil and little ricasso. Of course you can satisfy those requirements and still have a thumb ramp.

There are definitely times when I use a knife the way Cliff describes. Especially if the cut requires a fair amount of pushing force in addition to good tip control, I find a thumb ramp to be a very useful feature.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Is that better than just choking up on the blade?

I started doing it cutting fibreglas insulation because you can naturally angle the blade fairly easy and it gives tight control on the cuts. I do it now often on any similar cut. The thumb on spine also adds the ability for a powerful torque compensator, as it is much closer to the point of contact and thus requires much less force than you would need with wrist alone on the handle.

All of that being said, I have worked much with knives from Boye and the like which just have smooth rounded spines and never felt under equipped. When it is there I will utilize it in various ways but it isn't an essential feature in regards to ergonomics such as proper clip placement/design which can make/break a knife (or at least the clip anyway).

-Cliff

 

[Andros]

Yes.



This would depend on what you mean by low angle

Ask me what a "lower" angle is and I can answer that, ask me what a "low" angle is and I can't answer that

Ref :

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=344902

On a curious note, most of the low carbide steels are really disrespected on the forums, the stainless ones anyway, the carbon/tool steels ones are well respected. This is kind of silly as they have similar properties.

-Cliff

Finally, I understand who this gentleman called Landes is! I have come across this name many times in previous posts of yours and it had never occurred to me that this is a person of our times let alone a registered user of the Bladeforums. Thank you for uncovering this riddle for me. Unfortunately though I can't see what these links refer to, as they seem inactive. I was hoping to obtain information from this post since supposedly it was in English but, I was out of luck.

Aside from this though I have found that thread started by Roman Landes that you kindly brought to my attention nery interesting and enlightening. Definitely good for considerable homework:thumbup:. You know, somehow, it reminds me of astronaut's food: so condensed and yet full of substance.

Take care.

 

[Cliff Stamp]

Ask me what a "lower" angle is and I can answer that, ask me what a "low" angle is and I can't answer that

The two "high carbide" and "low angle" are interdependent, essentially the highest carbide steels (D2) will require edge angles of about 25-30 degrees for maximum stability. The lowest carbide steels (AEBL) will require minimal angles about 5-10 degrees. Landes has quantified this to some degree and is expanding his work. His main point thuogh was just to make this aware, that there is a large downside to lots of carbides and there are advantages to low carbide steels.

-Cliff