Kershaw - Putting round pegs in round holes

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

True, but in my mind I take apart a knife so rarely that a little inconvenience while doing so in not an issue to me. I can get it done- I might have to be careful- but it does get done. I'd personally rather have it difficult than have the knife so easily disassembled that parts come loose- which has happened to me with "easy disassemble knives" (not Sebbie BTW.)

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

I think it's more of a complaint of "why don't they do it this way--it works better." Fact of the matter is: It's more difficult to disassemble a round-pivoted knife than a D-pivot. I don't think the OP was saying that he's never going to buy a Kershaw again until they change it--he was just expressing frustration with their chosen method of construction for a handful of models.

 

[E-M-P-I-R-E]

I think it's more of a complaint of "why don't they do it this way--it works better." Fact of the matter is: It's more difficult to disassemble a round-pivoted knife than a D-pivot. I don't think the OP was saying that he's never going to buy a Kershaw again until they change it--he was just expressing frustration with their chosen method of construction for a handful of models.

Yes, thank you very much for understanding my frustration.


When i get in my car, i do not have to take my ignition half way apart, twist components in some weird way, and wrap ductape around my thumb to crank it up. Sure i CAN get my knives apart, but it in an inconvenience and an annoyance. Kershaw gains NOTHING by using the round design over a D-shaped or Hex bolt.....yet they continue to use them.

 

[Joshua J.]

Go to the Kershaw forum and ask them how to take them apart. It is very easy if you think about it. One method is to open the knife and place sideways pressure on the blade in a manner of your choosing and comfort. Then proceed to loosen the pivot screw while pressure is still being applied. There are at least three or four other methods that work well also. The pivot screws are held with locktite. Heat loosens locktite. Take it from there. The S110V Shallots are not press fitted. None of the Shallots are. Kershaw is not screwing anything up. You are just not asking any questions before making assumptions about Kershaw. You can use the search function via Google or man up ten bucks so you can use the forum search to answer your questions.

Maybe I got a fluke, but mine sure is. It takes quite a bit of force to push the pin out. That's a good thing though, I wish they were all done like that.

 

[the kid]

I've had that problem with the Shallot. The pivot on the S110V shallot was press fitted, and didn't spin. The ZDP Shallot on the other hand, was free flowing, and impossible to get apart.

I agree, it's a real pain when people don't design their knives to be taken apart. Ironically enough, Benchmade knives seem to be the easiest to take apart, and they say it voids the warranty.

I have a standard Shallot, the cheapest model, and had no trouble taking it apart.
Good to know taking a Benchmade apart will void the warranty, I will never buy a Benchmade now.
Any more brands with these kind of silly rules?

 

[The Mastiff]

Empire, The Kimura was made at the Kai/Kershaw plant but designed by Bradley/Benchmade. If you have a beef with it's design , take it up with Bradley/benchmade. Kershaw would not have just gone and changed the design. They made it how they were supposed to make it.

As far as designing knives for Kershaw, well, go for it. Apply for a job there so you can change the designs as you see fit. You do have an engineering degree and the experience in the field needed to get you in the door for an interview, right?

No problem then.It should be something you can get done before lunch. Joe

 

[E-M-P-I-R-E]

Empire, The Kimura was made at the Kai/Kershaw plant but designed by Bradley/Benchmade. If you have a beef with it's design , take it up with Bradley/benchmade. Kershaw would not have just gone and changed the design. They made it how they were supposed to make it.

Yes, i understand that the Kimura was designed by Bradly and kershaw had nothing to do with it. It is what just the final straw that pissed me off. It is almost like you are trying to use the fact that it is not actually a kershaw design to discredit the fact that kershaw on ~1/2 of their knives, uses the design.....which is flawed

As far as designing knives for Kershaw, well, go for it. Apply for a job there so you can change the designs as you see fit. You do have an engineering degree and the experience in the field needed to get you in the door for an interview, right?

Wow, is this really the kind of crap that you are resorting to? If it is, i guess you have never disliked a knife design and spoken out against it and voiced your opinion. But i guess as wise as you are, you never complain about anything?

No problem then.It should be something you can get done before lunch. Joe

No, it would probably take 3 months, 10 million dollars worth of new machinery, and 400 extra man hours a week to use the D-bolt or hex bolt design on their knives instead of the recessed pinning disk.

.....

 

[SOLEIL]

EMPIRE,

You are really not doing anything here but whining about a minor inconvenience. Just because you don't like it does not mean that the design is flawed. If you want to vent and whine then post a thread in Whine & Cheese about Kershaws flawed designs. This is general knife discussion. You are not discussing. You are pushing a personal bias against a knife company and their designs. Take it to Whine & Cheese and whine all you want. That is what it is there for.

 

[Tony8179]

EMPIRE,

You are really not doing anything here but whining about a minor inconvenience. Just because you don't like it does not mean that the design is flawed. If you want to vent and whine then post a thread in Whine & Cheese about Kershaws flawed designs. This is general knife discussion. You are not discussing. You are pushing a personal bias against a knife company and their designs. Take it to Whine & Cheese and whine all you want. That is what it is there for.

A big +1 on that.

 

[SPXTrader]

Empire, The Kimura was made at the Kai/Kershaw plant but designed by Bradley/Benchmade. If you have a beef with it's design , take it up with Bradley/benchmade. Kershaw would not have just gone and changed the design. They made it how they were supposed to make it.

As far as designing knives for Kershaw, well, go for it. Apply for a job there so you can change the designs as you see fit. You do have an engineering degree and the experience in the field needed to get you in the door for an interview, right?

No problem then.It should be something you can get done before lunch. Joe

Well said Joe. There are some out there that have problems dissembling legos too.

It appears Empire has had a few other self-inflicted problems with this knife than he disclosed above...

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=625461

 

[Joshua J.]

To be fair, most of their newer models have the hex head on the back, which I greatly appreciate (though the shallot somehow got missed). The problem is upgrading older models, which would be a big hassle. Probably more trouble than it's worth considering 99% of the people who own a Kershaw never even think about taking it apart.
Fact of the matter is the knives work just fine as is. It's just annoying as heck for people who like to take things apart.

 

[E-M-P-I-R-E]

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=625461

Yup, and i am actually pretty disappointed in it, i have always found Bradley to be quality stuff......but i have never had a screw strip on me with such little force.

 

[E-M-P-I-R-E]

To be fair, most of their newer models have the hex head on the back, which I greatly appreciate (though the shallot somehow got missed). The problem is upgrading older models, which would be a big hassle. Probably more trouble than it's worth considering 99% of the people who own a Kershaw never even think about taking it apart.
Fact of the matter is the knives work just fine as is. It's just annoying as heck for people who like to take things apart.

I agree, if you never take your knife apart you will not have problem. I do not have a problem with people who do not take their knives apart. However, you can not clean and lube most knives nearly as thoroughly without taking them apart. I did not "not disclose" the information....at the point of making this thread i was sitting down with the Kimura just being a pain in the ass. It did not encounter that problem until later. Furthermore, i do not see how the problem is self inflicted. I was loosening a screw that was designed to be adjusted using the proper tools.

 

[Thomas W]

This is something that has really pissed me off over the years, and siting down now trying to take my Kimura apart in killin' me more than ever.

Sorry, we don't purposely go out to "piss" customers off, but I guess it happens.

Kershaw for some reason loves, when designing a picot screw, put a torq screw on one side and a round slick disk on the other recessed down in a round hole. Between the round peg in a round hole and the fat that they thread lock the hell out of their pivot screws, it is all but impossible to take some of their knives apart. Leeks are like this, storms are like this, and not the kimura is like this. I will admit that on many models, like the blur and offset they got it right. However, that dos not make up for the fact that they messed up big time on many of their knives.

the fact that it is not actually a kershaw design to discredit the fact that kershaw on ~1/2 of their knives, uses the design.....which is flawed

Yes, i acknowledge that Kershaw does get some pivot screws right with their hex nut in a hex hole......but that does not excuse the fact that o many models they screw it up big time.

I've always found it best to find out a bit of background and history on a subject, ask a few questions, and then come strong with a qualified opinion, but that's just me. It's always kept me looking smarter than I really am.

With that said, it may have been best if you could have done that in this situation. You use some strong language against us as a manufacturer, and both question our integrity and general build knowledge. That IMO, is quite unfortunate, and not close to accurate.

The knives you question are not "flawed" nor "screwed up big time".

There are reasons we use a round pivot nut in stainless handled knives. In manufacturing, the small radius of the hex requires an extremely small end mill. These can frequently break off because the stainless steel (handle material), is very tough on tools. In the volume manufacturing business, the above is incredibly disruptive, expensive, and forces us to the round pivot nut.

Additionally, when the stainless parts go to "vibe", this process can roll a burr into the hex slot. These parts can't be reamed out, which forces us to scrap or rework the handles. Again, this defeats the high volume, value priced, USA made matrix that we strive for.

Certainly there are other reasons as well, but hopefully you can see that much thought, trail & error, and testing were done prior to us making the decisions we did on the stainless knives in question. If we were a specialty manufacturer, construction may be different, but this was not the objective with these price point knives.

Maybe you also need to understand who we are as a manufacturer. Kershaw Knives, Kai USA is in the volume knife business, and IMO, offers up the most for the least. We back up our work for a lifetime. I know it seems so easy to do what we do, but trust me, it's not.

I am very familiar with loctite and how to heat it o get it to release....and i have always used heat to release the loctite. I would imagine that it would be nearly impossible to take apart their loctite(ed) pivot without the use of heat. On to the next point. You do not think that a knife manufacturer should design their knifes in such a way that i do not have to half way disassemble my knife and the contort and bend it in weird ways to get it apart?

There are 3 or 4 simple ways to take these type knives apart, you just need to know what you're dealing with, take your time, and there will be no problems. If it bothers you too much, then there are other knives with alternative construction choices on the market that will suit you better. Let's be clear here though, these knives you say we "gain NOTHING from", couldn't be further from reality.

When i get in my car, i do not have to take my ignition half way apart, twist components in some weird way, and wrap ductape around my thumb to crank it up. Sure i CAN get my knives apart, but it in an inconvenience and an annoyance. Kershaw gains NOTHING by using the round design over a D-shaped or Hex bolt.....yet they continue to use them.

When you are going to jump in and tear a car apart, do you do a bit of homework when tackling the job at hand, or do you grab the closest tool and tear into it, hope for the best, and then grumble and point fingers when it doesn't all come together? I'm trying not to give you a hard time here, but a couple a questions and some research would have saved you on this one, plus you would have learned a thing or two.

 

[E-M-P-I-R-E]

thank you for your response. However, i feel like we are stuck on a point that everyone needs to get over. I know that there are various ways to go about taking these pivots apart, and i am familiar with most of the popular ones. When i have taken my knives aparp i have used various methods...the tape around the thumb is my favorite. However, it does not always work. I have found that on some kershaws that the picot is thread locked in there so good that you just can not get it out without damaging something. I had a storm like this. Even after heating it properly and using the tape method i could not get it apart. You can make an argument that i could have tried something else to get it out...But i can tell you from years of experience tinkering, disassembling, and cleaning my knives that if i had torq'd it any more the screw would have striped. It was just in there too good. However, this has been rare in my kershaw experience. My leek broke loose with nothing more than a bare thumb and torq bit.