Kershaw Shallot CPM S110V

nozh2002 said:
It will be more useful not to just post whittled hair, but also tell us how did your done this and picture your knife with this hair as well. Usually as you may see in other thread - "Sharpness record" people like to share how they achieve this.

I am not an amateur in sharpening, but I can not do this - but I want to be able to sharpen CPM S110V.

Can you teach me how to do this? I like to learn how to do this myself to do same what you just did. Not just see this amazing macro photo with very good light set up - almost piece of art I should note.

Thanks, Vassili.
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This is what I always see with this CPM S110V hair whittling claims - not any will to continue discussion, no details nothing - just simple claim and then complete scielense. I do not know how about others but to me this is bad sign.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
Im sorry but Ive seemed to have lost the 110v shallot :[ really upsets me too. And my method is quite simple really, I have a paper wheel set up with 400 grit sand on one side with 1000 grit loaded sloated wheel on the other side, i run my grinder at 3450 and bring a bur to the edge thats just slightly visable with a nice light set up. After that I use a finger nail polisher like one of those 4-1 set ups to remove my bur. After that, just for I guess tradition to how grandpa used to strop his edge on his thigh while wearing jeans I do the same thing. That usually leaves me with the sharpest edge Ive seen. Thanks for the remarks about the photo, I really liked that one and Ill try to find a picture of my s110 when I get back home.
-Barry-
 
nozh2002 said:
This is what I always see with this CPM S110V hair whittling claims - not any will to continue discussion, no details nothing - just simple claim and then complete scielense. I do not know how about others but to me this is bad sign.

Thanks, Vassili.
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Wow.....I actually went on the road and hadent checked bladeforums for awhile.......but ya know Ive heard your like this......:jerkit:
 
Larrin, and all others--some info on CPM 110v--Vasilli, Thanks for your take on CPM S110V. I would like to respectfully point out that your test is on the knife -- steel, hardness, handle, sharpening -- combination, not just the steel itself.
I recently got a small pc of CPM S110v to try out. I made a test knife that is exactly the same as my other test knives. Same thickness, grind, handle shape and sharpening method as my other test knives. I used the heat treat guidance from the Crucible web site data sheet on this steel. The data sheet info seems very conserative. With the same formula as I use for CPM 10V I got a RC 63 for a finished hardness. Following my std cutting tests on 5/8 rope I have concluded that this one falls right in the same category as CPM 10v and CPM S125V. Cutting on rope and whittling fir and twisting out of the cut showed no evidence of chipping on a very fine edge. (.010 behind the sharpening bevel of 30 degress included). Based on this one test, one heat treat trial this one looks like it has great potential for one of the best higher end high performance steels out there. I found sharpening on a green DMT and then stroping on silicon carbide loaded leather to produce the best edge for far. No-- I don't whittle hair but makes a great edge for a practical working knife. Phil
 
Phil Wilson said:
Following my std cutting tests on 5/8 rope I have concluded that this one falls right in the same category as CPM 10v and CPM S125V.
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Wow, what does the availability of 110V from Crucible look like? And what is the difference compared to S90V?
 
Phil Wilson said:
Vasilli, Thanks for your take on CPM S110V. I would like to respectfully point out that your test is on the knife -- steel, hardness, handle, sharpening -- combination, not just the steel itself.
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Yes we talk about this a lot and if you feel to repeat, let me also sad again that I disagree with you opinion on my tests for the reasons I several times described already (and never hear back from you). As well as your tests - without knowing initial sharpness level it is hard to say about performance even everything else is same, plus cutting rope on wooden board again does not provide even load - edge hits the board differently and got damaged randomly.

Thanks, Vassili.
 
So without knowing initial sharpness huh? And when we already know your initial sharpness is 100% variable then what?

Second, unlike Phil who spends time and effort to make identical knives for the test you don't even sharpen identical edges.

You don't hit the board randomly?
 
Hardheart,I have a request in to buy some but looks like most of the first heat is gone. I am hoping they will make some more. As I get more information on this can let you know. I have found that edge holding is influenced by hardness first and then the alloy content and other factors come into play as the edge wears. CPM S90V has a lower obtainable hardness than CPM S110V so this will handicap it some from the start. I can't give you a "percentage" better right now on the basis of one blade and one heat treat. If you take a look at the CPM S110V data sheet is does show some information on wear resistance compared to S90V. My initial tests pretty much confirm what they are showing. Higher hardness and higher total carbide content together is a great combo. PHIL
 
hardheart said:
his rope cutting jig is open at the bottom where the cut is made
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Last, or first time when I watched that video(http://playground.sun.com/~vasya/Manila-Rope-Testing.html) the cut wasn't made in air, there is a bottom and he can and will hit it, randomly. Also, because his jig has an opening, the rope clearly gets pushed in during the cut, so blade thickness and grind play even more important role, which he disregards completely. How can you compare 0.25" thick blade with 0.05" in wear resistance test using that type of cutting.

Either way, even if he never hits the bottom, and hold perfect 90deg angle (which I personally think is impossible for even 100 cuts) that differences in initial sharpness, different blade thickness and grind, do invalidate the whole comparison concept of his. Some of those affect test results to greater extent, others not so much, but the difference will accumulate over the long period, especially that he's cutting manila rope and from what the video shows, applying considerable forces too.

For individual knives it still might make sense, but comparing different knives based on that table is way out there.

The way cutting is done, it's a lot more push cutting than slicing, so I don't really see that as wear resistance test.
Cliff was testing number of slices required, using given force, to cut through the same rope. IMHO for wear resistance testing (that's what V is claiming) it's more realistic.
 
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Phil Wilson said:
Hardheart,I have a request in to buy some but looks like most of the first heat is gone. I am hoping they will make some more. As I get more information on this can let you know. I have found that edge holding is influenced by hardness first and then the alloy content and other factors come into play as the edge wears. CPM S90V has a lower obtainable hardness than CPM S110V so this will handicap it some from the start. I can't give you a "percentage" better right now on the basis of one blade and one heat treat. If you take a look at the CPM S110V data sheet is does show some information on wear resistance compared to S90V. My initial tests pretty much confirm what they are showing. Higher hardness and higher total carbide content together is a great combo. PHIL
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Great news that S110V has greater attainable hardness than S90V. Would S110V at 63 rc be suitable for a paring knife?
 
Once my 110V Shallot blade gets back to me from Tom Krein I'll be able to give more precise answer. However, judging from the wear resistance that thing has at 64HRC, and I think Richard J and Tom will agree on that, it'll be more than adequate.
Actually, I'd be reluctant to use folders in the kitchen as paring knives, if that's what you mean.



I have another 110V blade from Phil, Meadows Skinner, which is 64HRC too. So far it worked superbly on various materials. Edge is around 30 deg. included and no sighs of chipping. I've tested it in the kitchen, including paring and more general cutting jobs. Edge holding is very good, but interestingly no discoloration at all. Yeah, I kow it has 14% Cr in it, but ZDP-189 has 20%. Both have very high Carbon content, which does affect stain resistance.
 
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Gator97 said:
Once my 110V Shallot blade gets back to me from Tom Krein I'll be able to give more precise answer. However, judging from the wear resistance that thing has at 64HRC, and I think Richard J and Tom will agree on that, it'll be more than adequate.
Actually, I'd be reluctant to use folders in the kitchen as paring knives, if that's what you mean.



I have another 110V blade from Phil, Meadows Skinner, which is 64HRC too. So far it worked superbly on various materials. Edge is around 30 deg. included and no sighs of chipping. I've tested it in the kitchen, including paring and more general cutting jobs. Edge holding is very good, but interestingly no discoloration at all. Yeah, I kow it has 14% Cr in it, but ZDP-189 has 20%. Both have very high Carbon content, which does affect stain resistance.
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Very interesting regarding the corrosion resistance of the S110V. According to Crucible's datasheets it is better than all the other high carbon stainless steels (S90V/440C/S30V/154CM/VG-10/etc.) which is very impressive. Meanwhile ZDP-189 seems to rust, and I can't obtain any of the steel stock anyway.

It seems like S110V having other alloying elements that are stronger carbide formers than Cr allows there to be more free Cr than in ZDP-189. Then again nobody knows what other alloys are in ZDP-189, someone needs to spend $25 for an composition analysis and let all of us know.
 
If you know where that can be done, I mean comp analysis and it's non destructive, I'll be willing to spend 25$ to help the community.
 
I'll check them out and I'll try to find someone local in Bay area too. Thanks for the hint :)
I'll post later on whatever I get, hopefully the actual composition.
 
I've been on the phone with them for 15 mins already and it's a typical corporate left hand doesn't know what does the right one do :(
HQ guy said he has no idea and gave me local office number said they'd know.
Called local, they say they don't know and HQ should know....
At least they wrote down my contact info and promices to figure something out. Judging from the questions they're asking one would think they never even held a knife let alone composition analysis.
 
Blah... Just got the answer. Test per blade 90$. If it's stainless steel it's non destructive. On non stainless steel knives there will be a small mark left.
If I send in 10 blades or more then 65$ per blade.
 
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