Keshar Lal Villager Utility Knives for 9/21

Browning A Bolt said:
So how should one maintain the black blade? Should we oil the black portion of the blade?
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From Karda I learned a light coat of food grade Baby Oil/mineral oil is the best and cheapest route. Spread oil over entire blade, include the black/or colored and shiny parts. Depending on where you live will determine how often you do this. I'm in Anchorage so I do this once every two months and always after use.
 
sweetcostarica said:
Thanks ecos. You said "Most black knives are just painted" so for carbon blades most western knife manufactures remove the firescale and then color the knife or leave it shiny. That explains that but why do they do this for carbon knives? I'm thinking must be to save money. Maybe to have a prettier product at the cost of durability?
Many custom knife makers leave this scale on their products and their knives are way more expensive. Of course there are other factors for their cost but like I said it makes you think :confused:.
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I would think that it has to do with making the knives all look the same. The carbon scale probably don't work well when they are being made on an assembly line, and it would cause havoc for buyers trying to pick "a good one" when they are all wrapped up in the store. I like my Benchmade's the way everyone likes them, perfect and identical to the next one... But a handmade knife needs to be different and unique. So the time can be put in to ensure that the process is just right, and not looking identical to the knives made before and after are a plus.
 
Shinook nailed it I think. Most knives seen are mass produced and cut out from stock already ground to the intended thickness. Knives like the ones in this thread are usually forged by hand. Some makers then remove the forging marks and scale, others leave it in place. Some customers like one, some like the other. Personally I like the looks of forging marks and firescale..it adds character and it does cut down on finishing time as well, which lowers the price.

As for US makers often being pricier....well often cost of living is pricier in the US. There are knifemakers here in the Philippines selling 18" bolos for $4-5, and they are able to do that because minimum wage here is about $1/hr, and from what I've read over 1/3 the country lives off less than $1 a day. You simply can't do that in the US, especially if you are located in an expensive area like Hawaii, California, etc. As you said, there are other factors as well....type of material used, the fit and finish, etc. can play a huge role in the price. For example upgrading to a nice stabilized wood can add $25-50 in materials cost alone. Or getting a guard to fit exactly right or remove every single scratch can take hours...multiple those hours by the average hourly wage in the US and it adds up quickly. Does it make a better knife? Depends on the maker and what you consider being "better".
 
What you have said makes good sense and I guess Unions also raise costs a little now that I follow what you're saying. Note: not knocking Unions, just saying.
Thanks ecos for the schooling :thumbup:.
 
This may sound weird, but how would one go about removing the scale? Sandpaper? I ask because I live in a humid environment and the scale may act to absorb moisture.
 
Sandpaper should work okay, though it will be harder to get the black out of any little depressions resulting from the forging. Taping the shiny bevel and the soaking the blade in vinegar for a day or two would probably work, too.

That said, i wouldn't recommend removing the black unless you actually do have problems with it. The top-end axes from Sweden (Gransfors Bruks, Wetterlings) have the black forge scale, and they are often used in wet conditions. The black oxide actually resists the typical rust that can form.

Shiny or black, if they are kept oiled , they shouldn't have any rust problems.
 
On some of the KLVU Knives for sale this past week, the "line" between the black scale and the shiny bevel is uneven (grinding wasn't done so carefully). I got an "Ugly Villager" like this, and I used sandpaper to take off a little black and make it look better.
 
I removed the scale from a Farmcata that I use in the kitchen using sandpaper. I've gone back and forth on whether that was the "right" decision, but ultimately I'm glad I did because it fits-in better in my kitchen that way. It was a great deal more work than I thought when I started - it was hard to remove, particularly from the indentations, but using progressevly finer sandpaper and some rubbing alcohol I got it all off. The blade has some fine scratches in the fuller that were underneath the scale and I had run out of elbow grease removing the scale and never got around to polishing out those scratches so they are still there.
 
I take the forge scale off all of mine. Always found it provided too many opportunities for rust to develop. Wet a paper towel with vinegar and put it on the black portion of the blade, let it sit for an hour or so and scrub it off easily with a scotchbrite pad.
 
I never really had an issue with rust on the unfinished blade or "blade scale" and I use my knifes in the cold, ice, snow, wet conditions of Alaska. I always thought it prevented rust in the areas it was on myself. Also, the blackish/grayish color helps eliminate reflections that can give an unwanted signal out (more of a hunting or tactical advantage).
If you like a clean blade for cosmetic reasons I can see going through removing the scale but I think rust is not a real problem with unfinished parts of a blade (IMO).
 
The forge scale is rust preventative, but it will show rust if you fail to properly care for your blades.
When it does show rust it is easily remedied by wiping it off with a rag and a little mineral oil.
 
The knife is awesome. Everyone should own one or more.

I was going to keep the scale, but when I oiled the scale with a paper towel soaked with mineral oil the scale gave the paper towel a thick reddish brown stain. I don't know if this is rust, but I plan on using the blade in the kitchen and wanted a cleaner blade. So I gave the blade the vinegar treatment and the scale easily came off with some brushing with steel wool. Thanks to everyone for their valuable advice.
 
Browning A Bolt said:
So how should one maintain the black blade? Should we oil the black portion of the blade?
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Oil it but *do not remove* the black patina. It is a natural shell against rust.

Polishing looks nice, but it opens the metal for oxygen to react with the exposed iron atoms. The black "shell" if you will, is almost pure carbon, already "rusted" by the fire.
The forge burns the metal. By definition, burning is a fast oxidizing reaction...rust a slow one. But since man created this in the forge, this black rust is what we want. Burn up and "rust" the outside steel fast, without oxidizing the underlying metal. Think campfire vs wildfire, dam vs rapids. Controlled vs uncontrolled energy release. Still the same reactions, but controlled it provides benefit..uncontrolled, it brings destruction.

Once metal oxidizes on the outside, it will stop and go no further. "Good black", as the forest service fire brigade says. Kinda strange comparison i know, but accurate.
 
GoodStuff said:
Oil it but *do not remove* the black patina. It is a natural shell against rust.

Polishing looks nice, but it opens the metal for oxygen to react with the exposed iron atoms. The black "shell" if you will, is almost pure carbon, already "rusted" by the fire.
The forge burns the metal. By definition, burning is a fast oxidizing reaction...rust a slow one. But since man created this in the forge, this black rust is what we want. Burn up and "rust" the outside steel fast, without oxidizing the underlying metal. Think campfire vs wildfire, dam vs rapids. Controlled vs uncontrolled energy release. Still the same reactions, but controlled it provides benefit..uncontrolled, it brings destruction.

Once metal oxidizes on the outside, it will stop and go no further. "Good black", as the forest service fire brigade says. Kinda strange comparison i know, but accurate.
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Just to clarify ...I dont mean to imply that oxidization from rusting and carbonization from burning are the same thing... Just that both processes are in play and acting on or opposing each other.
 
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