Khukuri blade steel question

J

John79

Joined
Feb 24, 2007
Messages
225
I am having a khukuri by Himalayan Imports made for me, (a 4 pound, 20 inch, Ang Khola) and I know that they use leaf springs to make the blades, but I have heard that the leaf springs off of a Mercedes are best. I know that HI also uses Dozer leaf springs. Are Mercedes springs really better than the others? If so, how much better? Thanks for the help everyone.
 
OH CRAP! Sorry guys! Wrong forum.....I forgot. If a Mod would move it, that would be great, sorry again!
 
attachment.php
 
The Rockwell hardness used to be tested by Bill Martino on a regular basis. Others test it today. It is typically between 58 to 62 Rockwell. (on the sweet spot) I remember a 57 or 56 Bill offered for sale but it was unsold, that probably being thought too soft.

The rockwell hardness of HI khuks are exactly what they should be in a tool of this type. I am not disapointed, nor are the thousands of owners who actually work with wood and chopping.

I do appreciate learning the detail that SlamFire has offered, only disagreeing about possible disapointment.


munk
 
I myself have never owned one of HI's khuks, but what SlamFire said seems to kinda go against what I have heard, not to be rude at all, but I think that HI khuks are better than "pretty good." From what I've heard, they are pretty much the best you can buy without going custom...........right? Also, does that "zone hardening" that HI does produce a visible hamon? (I think thats what it called.)
 
I don't think Slamfire is slamming(no pun intended) the way the khukuris are made.He is just saying that compared to a highly modern heat treat process, such as Busse uses, the khukuris would not seem to be up to snuff. ON PAPER. He seems to be saying that if that is all you go by you will be disappointed in an otherwise quality tool.

All I see him saying is that the kamis are craftsman that are able to work with low tech materials and techniques and make a quality product that works very well for its intended use. I can see a spec kinda person being leery of the specs on khukuris because there really isn't any hard consistent number to quote. Each one is a one of a kind in the old world tradition of craftmanship. They have worked very effectively and will continue too for hundreds of years. Will they stand up to American custom knife standards? No, but they are not intended too and they don't cost thousands of dollars either.
 
I like my hi tech super steel American made knives, but for most anything I can think of the HI khukuris hold their own and I enjoy the uniqueness of the knives. No one else has a knife that is exactly like mine and that is cool.
 
It would not be advisable to have an edge on a Khukuri with too hard a rockwell rating. It could be dangerous. I don't believe the R ratings HI has could be called low, though.

I don't think the materials could be termed low tech either- it all depends upon who's livingroom, or lab, you're in as you speak. Spring steel is good stuff. Traditionally Busse users and HI users have a lot of overlap, and there's mutual respect between the owners.
If I were buying a 'modern knife' I'd want a Busse, among others.
There are materials we've yet to discover or make that will replace the job clay does for a pot, but there will always be a use for a potter's wheel and a ceramic bowl.


munk
 
Your correct, apologies to you SlamFire, sorry to be a noob about etching, but how exactly do you do etch, rub the blade with a paper towl soaked in lemon juice?
 
tedwca said:
Each one is a one of a kind in the old world tradition of craftmanship. They have worked very effectively and will continue too for hundreds of years.
Click to expand...

lf it ain't broke, don't fix it. :thumbup:

Will they stand up to American custom knife standards? No, but they are not intended too and they don't cost thousands of dollars either.
Click to expand...

They're up to my standards, and that's all I care about. I have three HI khukris and I love them. They have never failed to do the job they were designed to do, and they do it well. And they look good doing it.
 
John79 said:
Your correct, apologies to you SlamFire, sorry to be a noob about etching, but how exactly do you do etch, rub the blade with a paper towl soaked in lemon juice?
Click to expand...

One etching method. This description deals mainly with ferric chloride but the technique is essentially the same for citric acid.

In your case, I recommend pouring some etchant into a plastic pitcher, placing that in a deep sink, and sticking the blade point-first into the bottom of the pitcher. Use a paintbrush to continually apply fresh solvent to each side as it runs off.

Slamfire isn't knocking anyone or anything -- he's merely telling it like it (probably) is, and I'm largely in agreement with him. I've noted in the past that some HI's didn't etch like others; the metal looked, oxidized, and even smelled differently. The most likely reason for this is just what he said above: they're never quite sure what they're using.

Where I disagree is in the hardness. Generally the edges I've tested caused a Nicholson to skate or nearly skate. This is plenty hard for the task at hand and harder than many production knives. The spines are quite a bit softer than that of course.
 
John79 said:
I am having a khukuri by Himalayan Imports made for me, (a 4 pound, 20 inch, Ang Khola) and I know that they use leaf springs to make the blades, but I have heard that the leaf springs off of a Mercedes are best. I know that HI also uses Dozer leaf springs. Are Mercedes springs really better than the others? If so, how much better? Thanks for the help everyone.
Click to expand...

John, not to hijack your thread, but aside from the spring issue, are you sure on the 4 lbs.? That is awfully heavy. One of the reasons that I don't care for CAK's above 18" or so is the weight. This is a standard AK?

I know the HI web site and Uncle Bill used to talk about these incredibly heavy 1/2" thick spine behemoths, but I only own one (courtesy of Jimmy.)

I just mention it as I have handled quite a few HI's, and to me a 20" should not weigh more than about 2.5 lbs. or so. Of course, I have a custom 20.5" kukri that comes in at 53 oz. so what does that say? :o However, it is balanced so well and has such a great handle that I swear it weighs a pound less...

In checking records I have a nice old school 18.5" that comes in at 3 lbs. (about 8-10 oz. too heavy IMO), a sweet Amtrak 20" at 2 lbs. 3 oz., and a 25" Father AK that comes in at 3 lbs. 10 oz., so even at 5" longer it weighs 6 oz. less than your beast.

Obviously, your call, just my .01 cents worth. I am sure the thing will chop like crazy, but it's just lifting it more than 8 or 10 times! ;):D


Best,

Norm
 
4 pounds and 20" long? That blade will probably be more then 1/2" thick! Good luck with it. Go easy at first those big blades will give you a workout!

Heber
 
I've recently come by a 25" AK that's 1/2" and just over 4 lbs...

Checking my other 1/2"-er, the UF:

from the UF review:
"Length: 21" to tang-bolt, 20.5" to buttcap (blade tip to end overall)

Weight: 2 lbs, 14.8 oz.- yes, that's 46.8 ozs.

Thickness: .55 spine thickness (!) at bolster, .50 at curve, .30 at tip.

By comparision, my 20" AK weighs in at 2 lbs, 1.5 oz. and a YCS (from the first batch) weighs 2 lbs, 3.6 oz.

My 25" Malla weighs 2 lbs, 7.6 oz. and the 25" Gelbu Special is 2 lbs, .07 oz. At one time I considered those large, heavy knives."

Krikey, that may be a 3/4" thick 20"-er. :eek:

Interesting stats. Personally, I can only (safely) swing a 3-4 lb khuk with two hands. "Letting the blade do the work for you" is especially true with that kind of weight- just get it going and get out of the way!


Mike
 
I can handle it, not to say that it won't be a workout- it will, but I'm a reasonably large guy, I'm 6 foot 2. Also, at my friend Jessie's house there is no axe, hatchet, maul, or any other woodcutting device, when I go over there (a few times a week until I moved 2 weeks ago) we have huge bonfires every time. In order to get the large pieces of hardwood (up to 20 feet long and and about a foot thick) I use a pickaxe with a 4.5 pound head to break the wood up. This is done by driving the pick into the center of the log as hard as you can, then leverage it out like a crowbar, ripping the wood on the way out, then repeat for an hour. So, in short, while the khuk will be a heavy workout to use, I can handle it. Sidenote- I am not buying it for just wood chopping at Jessie's house, as I realize a good axe would be fine, but I need a tool that is a little more versitile, the khuk will be mainly used for chopping very thick and hard woods, and plus I really wanna have a knife like that because I want to. I can't wait, I'll have it by mid October, I will be sure to post lots of pics!
 
I think it's amazing what these guys can do. Spring steel is a good choice for a large blade. I know a lot of knife guys think Rockwell hardness is a status symbol, but you really don't want a large blade to be as hard as glass. I've seen far too many supposedly good blades break when used for batoning and such because they were way too hard. The differential hardening of the cutting edge, and leaving the rest of the blade progressively softer to the spine seems to be the best compromise.

As far as doing it with a teapot, according to the HIO website:
The master kami was born a kami in both caste and work. For as long as anybody can remember his forefathers were kamis. At perhaps age 5 or 6 he begins helping his father and grandfather in the arun. He learns to pull the chain on the bellows. He gathers charcoal. He brings water for the quenching pitcher. He learns the names of tools and procedures.

At around 12 years of age he is using the hammer and does much of the pounding of steel that goes on in the shop. He can make a few simple farm implements by himself. Sometimes his effort produces a quality tool, sometimes not.

By the time he is 20 he can fire up the shop by himself and can produce many items. He can make a decent khukuri by himself but it sometimes will not be perfect.

At 30 we can call him an intermediate.

At around 40, depending on the person, he is just about ready for master kami status. The grandfather has left his body and his father is too old to do much work so it is on his shoulders to take over the operation of the arun. At this stage he has made every farm tool that can be made. He can make a perfect khukuri 99% of the time.
Click to expand...

So when you get a kukri made by a master kami, it seems he'd have at least 28 years of experience in doing so. So I wouldn't sorry much about the quality.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top