khukuris cont.

Cougar, sounds like pretty tough stuff, for an epoxy. Isn't that how the Hundays are made. Or was it Yugo's? whatever.

I think I'll go buy some of that stuff in the event I happen to need it.
 
If the reason that the edge chips out on wood is because its extreemly hard then you are talking about a really high RC. You should be able to see a significant difference in difficulty between sharpening the GH khukuri and the HI one if that was the case. If you can't I would bet that its something else causing it.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, it is not any harder to sharpen, and it also does not hold an edge any longer. Could be that the very edge is just hardened to much. We will see.

Makes you wonder how many of the knives out there are really tested hard to backup their claims. I don't think that there are many that have actually tested their knives in real survival type use.
 
Cobalt its possible but I doubt it. I think you would notice it right away when you tried to sharpen it. The last time I encountered a knife that behaved like that was when a friend gave me a kitchen knife to sharpen. Using my x-coarse dmt hone to put a bevel back on tore the edge up bad. The steel was extreemly hard and broke off in bits. However once I switched to a softer stone and used lighter strokes it was fine. It did take a while to grind however it took a really shallow edge with no problems with burr flopping and last I heard it was still going strong. I would not however want to try this as a utility knife as the edge would quickly break apart.

-Cliff
 
Cliff, was tied up Monday, in Reno Tuesday, so got Ontario Kukri and Bolo orders mailed today priority mail with shipping also priority mail. Should get them any time from a week from now on. Will then ship all four Ontarios (Marine Raider and Survival Bowies, Kukri, and Bolo)to you. And no, Cobalt, I didn't buy anything from Bill while I was up in Reno. Didn't have time. Besides, if I call early one morning, I get what I ordered in the mail the next afternoon.

------------------
Russ S
 
Rusty, I told Bill to sell you his special wonton kukri. It is made in Hong Kong and is 1/32 inch thick and sharp as a razor. The handle is made of petrified dinosour dung. Should be worth something. Oh, and this one is a no tang style. The handle is just epoxied onto the blade. Should work ok.
 
And I was embarassed for having suggested "March Madness" as the name for the forthcoming Camillus megafolder in Jim's honor...

Now you see how bad it can get, Jim. I ain't even close.

------------------
Russ S
 
A lot of discussion has occured since my absence (I was in Ohio). Anyway, here are some comments about the tests, chips, handles, and so forth.

RE: the 1/8 inch chip. Yes, that is certainly larger than I had expected. I too thought you meant slight irregularities along the edge. This is certainly not good, and I would hope that your knife is an exeption. Send it back and I will be glad to send you a new one.

As for the brass handles, I'm going to order some on the WWII model just to see how it behaves. Could be a real winner, but then, balance could be a problem. I also carry wood handles, but don't order as many of them as I like the look of the bone handle better. But, if the wood "handles" better, I will start to carry more and suggest to customers planning on using the knife that they go for the wood handles.

Cliff asked about the custom knife with the larger handle, and how much that would cost. Actually, it won't cost very much more, as there is a model I have not ordered yet that weighs a little more and has a larger handle. If it turns out that this model solves the handle problem for those of you that have complained about handle size, I will start to carry it in my inventory as an option for the large-handed.

Cliff, have you received your knife for testing yet? It should have arrived by now (although with some of the tests going on already, I think you may be doing some repeat work). I'm hopeful that you can expand our knowledge of the capabilities and limitations of the Gurkha House Khukuri line.

 
Craig, I received your khukuri a few days ago, I thought I sent you an email, sorry. Anyway, you can see some comments on it at:

http://www.bladeforums.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001759.html

You can check out my initial impressions at:

http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/knives/bas_gh.html

And finally you can see the details of the upcoming test at:

http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/knives/face_off.html

Results will be coming in fairly regular and the pages will be updated every few days as I compile the information.

The initial performance is very promising. It chops very well, no chipping has been seen (just wood so far) and just a little impaction which is reducing with each sharpening.

I have just finished running it against the TUSK with regards to chopping over a wide variety of tasks on wood. Cutting down trees, limbing them out, pointing them into stakes (gently), and finally sectioning them into 1' lengths. This was repeated on dry seasoned wood.

In short, while the TUSK has the far more comfortable handle (its longer and fatter and is better shaped for comfort and security), the Service #1 model generally far outperforms it in terms of ease and speed of chopping. Because of the flat grind on the TUSK it sinks too easily into the wood and gets stuck, this really limits the force that you can use while chopping. As well the balance of the khukuri is more suited to heavy chopping as you can use a tight grip and really power the knife into the wood.

Cobalt made some really nice posts about exactly this feature of the khukuri geometry in the HI forum on Bladeforums.com.

Anyway, once I evaluate the Uluchet and Ang Khola as well I post up the details of the entire run.

-Cliff
 
Cliff and Craig, I'm glad testing is going well for you. I too noticed the burr you mentioned and removed it with a few swipes the Spyderco ceramic sharpeners used as files.

The indentations you mentioned, could they be worked out by steeling?

If you think the Tusk gets stuck wait to you try your Cold Steel kukuri at 635 g and forward heavy.

It is interesting to note that the No. 1 service model out performes the Tusk even though the Tusk is 80 g about 20% heavier.

Craig, I like wooden handles. Gripping is easier with the wooden handle when your hands are grimy. I suspect the horn is tougher and requires less maintenance though.

Will


[This message has been edited by Will Kwan (edited 26 March 1999).]
 
Cliff and Will, wasn't the problem with the CS Ghurka's flat ground blade the same problem as with the TUSK. It is logical then that the convex style edge doesn't let the blade stick into the tree's. I have noticed the same edge sticking with hollow ground blades as well. It seems that since the edge is thinner it does not split the wood apart like a wedge as much and the wood tends to want to grab the blade. But you are right, none of the HI or Ghurka house khukuri's got stuck in the wood as easily.
 
I believe your are quite correct Cobalt. The flat ground on the CS Gurkha is the main cause of the kukuri jamming. Solution, drop mag -wack on handle, cycle action and reload -wind up, and fire -swing.

Will
 
Will, you can work the indentations out by steeling. What I usually do is take a large butchers steel and work about a couple of minutes pushing the metal back into place. I then take the x-coarse dmt and sharpen the khukuri. The last step is done to remove some of the folded over metal as its not as durable as it was before and will impact again quite easily in the same spot.

Cobalt, yeah flat grinds do not make exceptional wood choppers. They do make nice machetes though. The TUSK is very good at clearing out light brush say about an inch or so in diameter as it very easily cuts though with little effort due to the thin grind. If I was making a shelter for example I would use the khukuri to cut down the trees and then the TUSK to limb them out. Note however that while the TUSK is very difficult to do heavy wood chopping with the khukuri is only slightly lower in performace when the brush becomes lighter. Its strong recurve and forward balance make up for the thicker grind.

-Cliff
 
Craig, yes, the edge on this one was probably a little to hard, but who really knows. I'll send it back to you.

In the meantime, I continued chopping with it and attempting to take out the chips with my DMT stones. I was able to remove some but not all of the chip indentation.

The following is my conclusion, on this knife so far. The buttcap came off in the first hour of chopping. I believe that this may be due to the tang not being properly attached to the buttcap. I continued chopping with it. There were two hairline cracks at the top of the handle near the brass ring at the blade, that got longer and after two weeks of chopping wood, they gave way and a large chunk of the horn broke off, but was still attached under the brass ring. This can be epoxied back in place, though, and was probably from an undetectable crack in the horn. I also noted the bottom of the handle separating from the brass ring, ever so slightly. The handle still feels solid, but may eventually come loose due to the cracked horn, loss of the buttcap and slight separation of the handle at the brass.

Other than chipping this blade has stood up well to chopping. It holds a decent edge and has not developed any other cracks.

Overall, I think this knife is worth the money. I do not think that it can compare to the H.I. product as far as durability goes. But at it's price range it does not need to compare since it is not meant as a competitor, in my opinion, but more as an alternative to those who cannot afford the H.I. In the price range of the service, you don't have many real good choices and this blade fills this spot well. Also, don't take my review as the word for all of the Service khukuries since this one may have had more than normal flaws.

My H.I. Ang Khola has chopped considerably more than the Service and shows no signs of wear. It is what I almost term an indestructable knife.

In all fairness to this product and most others, the Himalayan Imports Ang Khola is the absolute toughest knife I have ever had the pleasure of owning, and I don't think there is any knife even at 4 times the cost that can compare to it. It simply has no competition so far as far as my personal experience goes. The blade will not budge and the entire khukuri is as solid as ever. In fact it's at my uncle's house doing tree chopping duty for the last month and next few months. Cliff is testing it along with the others in his overall test and he may or may not have a different view. I think that with the number of knives he's got testing, whatever conclusions will be quite accurate.

 
I finished the testing with the knives on hand this weekend. I will have a look at Rusty's when I get them. And of course if CS decides to send any I'll have a look at them as well. Out of the 4 "knives" being tested the TUSK and the Service #1 failed the harder toughness tests.

The first tet was on tip strength, 10 repeated stabs through thin sheet metal (the roof of a car). The TUSK and Ang Khola passed with no problems. The Service #1 took a bend right a the tip about 5 degrees. The Uluchet had no problems with this, I used the bottom of the curved part to do the stabs.

Lateral blade strength was tested by prying with the blades stuck in a stump. The TUSK and the Service #1 khukuri both took a perm. bend. The bend extended about 6-8 cm from the tip on both and was about 3 degrees with the TUSK and 8 degrees with the Service. The TUSK could be resheathed the Service could not. I didn't do this with the Uluchet as its not a reasonable expectation. The 15" Ang Khola was tested first and it suffered no ill effect.

The Service khukuri from GH was easily straightened by reversing the prying motion and I was able to resheath it. The blade now has a little wave in it near the top but is still functional and it has little impact on chopping as I don't use that area anyway.

On to edge strength and the TUSK suffered a significant failure. With the edge imbedded in a 4x4 I pressed down and large pieces of the blade broke away.It left a hole about 4 cm long and 1.5 cm deep. By the way this is how I actually chop wood as doing upswings with a knife is too awkward. Just chop in and press down to break the wood out. The two khukuris did not suffer any damage from this part of the test and again I did not include the Uluchet.

I did many more tests before I built up to the above I will describe them in detail at:

http://www.physics.mun.ca:80/~sstamp/knives/face_off.html

The Uluchet was the surprise performer in regards to edge retention and durability. It suffered no indentation or chipping even when cutting though the car roof. It took about 6 hours of chopping on wood to dull it where it would not slice fabric. After it was blunted on the wood it took just 10 strokes of a cermaic rod on both sides and then a couple to work the burr of and it was back to normal. Similar for when I finished hacking on the car roof.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 29 March 1999).]
 
Cliff, WOW. The Tusk bent and did not break. My kind of knife. But a big chunk of steel broke off it? I do this type of side prying with my khukuris and even the trailmaster I used to have, and have never had the edge break like that. Good report.

The Service bent and you were able to bend it back in place making it USEABLE. I think this says a lot for the break vs. bend argument.
 
The bend was slight but yes it did not break when prying. Regarding the edge breaking away this actually had the interesting side effect of straightening the blade out pretty much.

Note that for both the prying failures in the stump I had to extert a fair amount of force. I would not be able to this accidently. The edge breaking thing I would though as I do exactly this when chopping and I do it a lot more violently than when I was testing on the 4x4's. I have also done edge prying in the past with the 15" Ang Khola with no effect.

Note concerning strength the TUSK is by far the thinnest out of the three knives and I would be willing to bet that if it was scaled up to the same thickness that it would hold. Of course if you scaled it up it would get much thicker (of course) and thus its penetration would be much lower. It would be interesting to compare a more traditional bowie shape with a khukuri both of similar weights and balance and directly see how the khukuri blade curve effects cutting.

I wish other people would start using the material MD uses in his handles. I actually used really non sensible grips to see if I could produce a blister but to no avail. There is simply nothing to wear on your hand at all and no danger of slipping.

-Cliff
 
The Uluchet looks more convenient to carry around with you than some of these monster knives, so even though it doesn't keep up with them in chopping it could be attractive for times when you carry a tool more than use it, like backpacking. Have you tried using it as a knife much, for cutting rather than chopping? I wonder how well it does in that role. Does it feel as natural and comfortable to use for cutting as more conventional knives, or does it feel more like an awkward substitute for a real knife?

Despite my rant in another thread about knives bending, I don't consider a 3 degree bend too horrible. The chipping out, though ... was that on the serrated portion of the Tusk, breaking off teeth, or was it on the plain edge?

-Cougar Allen :{)
 
Cougar what you said about the uluchet is true and what makes it all the more impressive is that the edge held so well. I may have to get me one before they decide to raise the price on it.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top