Kinda OT...Begginer's handgun.

If you like the full size HK USP, be sure and try the USP Compact. The compact is kinda/sorta being replaced by the P2000, but I don't think you'll find one(P2K) in a rental fleet. P2K has 3 extra backstraps so it can be adjusted to fit just about anyones hands.

Fun and games with HK is trying to figure out which operating module you want. If you need more info visit hkpro.com

Both Sig and HK won contracts to supply Fed LEO's with double action only (DAO). Sig calls their's a DAK and HK is LEM. No extra levers to mess with, has a long trigger pull, similar to a revolver.

I like the LEM!!!!

Bottom line is what most of the previous posters have stated, it must fit you. If you have other family members around, get a gun with a manual safety.

Mike in Seattle
 
Hi Mike,

I have not tried a DAO yet. Next in the list :)

Kishmet,
I have already bought a good pair of glases. I've been using earplugs and the big headphone thingy. I was told at the range that good ones go from $300 to $600. Any one you would recomed? I was thinking of the Pro Ears

Tbar
 
Good hearing and eye protection are a must. Buy the best you can get or your shooting experience will not be as enjoyable as it should be.

Also:

1) Forget about the caliber, that is something you can worrry about on your second gun

2) Pick a gun that seems to fit your hand well

3) Go with a minimum 4 inches of barrel length

4) Don't spend too much, you will need to buy plenty of ammo.

5) Stay away from reloaded ammo. Much of the reloaded junk sold in store can range from useless to outright dangerous. Worst case senario the gun blows up in your face. Spend a little and buy first quality ammo until you are ready, knowledgeable, and mature enough to do the reloading yourself.

6) Shoot slow and aim. Wasting ammo and making noise will never get you anywhere; and, it can take years off the life of the gun. Start at close range and consentrate on getting all of your rounds through the smallest possible hole. If it gets too easy; move the target back a couple of yards and do it again.

7) Change your target often and use an uncluttered target so you can see what you are doing. A 1 inch red dot on a sheet of white 8-1/2 x 11 is all that you need. Just bring a ream of the stuff.

8) Learn to clean and maintain your gun.

9) Keep notes of everything you like and dislike about the gun. Record how accuracy changes as the residue builds up during practice. Try different brands and style of ammunition and note how that changes the performance. If accuracy drops sharply after 100 rounds of brand x, then you know that it is pointless to continue to fire beyond that point, and can set up your pactice sessions accordingly.

10) Keep the crowds small. Even if they know what they are doing it is harder to stay focused.

Do that for a few months and you will be ready to buy your second gun.

(wow! That was Post #8,000)

n2s
 
What everyone said.

I want to stress:

1. The constant awareness you need to develop for just where that muzzle is pointing.

2. That you handle the weapon dry as much as you can to get familiar with its operation.

3. That you should buy a Ruger or Browning .22 and put a million rounds through it. It's an order of magnitude cheaper and you'll be a crack shot while people who started with 9mms and .40s and .45s are still duffing them outside the black circle. A .22 will make a shooter out of you in a much bigger hurry. Also provides lots more fun with lots more shooting.

4. Go with the gun that fits you the best and feels most natural. Don't let looks get in the way. For me it was a 1911, Browning Hi Power, Ruger Mark II or a Colt Python/S&W 686 revolver.

For me, the 1911 stands out most though. I could drop 7 rounds into an inch or two at 10 yards the first time I shot it. Back to #3: I believe this is because I shot a Crosman .357 pellet revolver almost non-stop for all of my teenage years, and many air rifles before that. Calibre doesn't mean much if your technique is honed.

Again, if I were you I would seriously think about making a .22 part of your first pistol purchase.

Also, I would take all those training courses you mentioned. Better well-trained with a cheap gun than vice-versa.
 
Kismet said:
Spend your first equipment money on VERY good ear protection.

Hearing doesn't heal.
Click to expand...

I can sure enough vouch for this!!!! Too many years in the machine shops before hearing protection was required ruined my hearing to quite an extent.:grumpy:
 
Get something that can handle cheap calibre ammo like a .22 for practice as well. If you are really going to learn to shoot, ammo costs will eat into your wallet.
For homedefense consider shotguns as well, if you worry about overpenetration you can probably find some suitable shells where overpenetration should be less that with a handgun.
Are you going to be doing ccw in the future? if so get something that is not a pain to hide unless you plan to get another gun for ccw.
Make sure to take a safetycourse and practice proper safety procedures with an unloaded gun till it is second nature too keep finger off the trigger, holstering etc.
 
I'll toss in another vote for a Browning Buckmark or Ruger MKII .22 pistol as the right first pistol choice. With a gun like that, you can get in for half the price of anything else you've mentioned and be able to shoot a lot more for a lot less as ammo costs are so much lower on a .22 vs. anything else you might consider. A .22 will teach you trigger control and sight picture and won't induce the flinch reflex. Even after you buy a more powerful defense pistol, a .22 will continue to deliver huge amounts of fun for cheap and will then give you an non intimidating tool with which to introduce other non gun oriented friends to the sport. While on the light side of stopping power, a .22 is still a real gun and has some merit as a defense gune, although would certainly not be my first choice in that roll, especially with the light trigger that most come with.

Don't write the Glock off so quickly. They're not pretty and have a mushy trigger, but there's good reason so many law enforcement agencies have chosen them. Besides being VERY realiable, they are easy to repeatedly hit with. In a defence gun, repeatability and reliability score way above looks and coolness.

As an alternative, look at a nice 4" .357 like a Ruger GP100. The 4" .357 is one of the most versatile guns in existance. You can down load it with .38 special wadcutters for cheap practice ammo, or fill it with Cor-bon hollow points for the most effective single shot stopping power of any handgun. It is small enough to be carried if need be and as reliable as any gun ever built. A mid sized .357 can do anything you would ask of a handgun.

Just my thoughts.
 
For well over 30 years and working for several agencies, I made my living straping on a handgun. The advice from several others above is excellent, go get a good 22LR, semi-auto or revolver and learn to shoot it well. I've owned several 22 semi-autos, but the one I kept is a 6" Smith & Wesson K-22 Masterpiece revolver....it's all there, superb trigger, right weight, balance, and outstanding accuracy with most anything I feed it...I buy bricks of 500 hundred rounds of Winchester standard velocity for what you pay for a box of 9mm. Used K-22's routinely turn up in gunshops, and most have been well cared for...almost impossible to wear out.
 
IT's been said by Satori and many others- the one that fits you best.
That's what you were doing down at the Range in the first place- very smart.

I wouldn't use the scores at a shooting range with rented handguns to indicate the inherent accuracy of the types of weapons. If you shot some better than others, though, I'd look at that.

There was a new shooter who wanted to buy a holster. He asked the guys at the range which one. One old guy didn't have the heart to tell him there was no 'one' holster, and he'd probably end up with a drawer-full like everyonelse.


munk
 
Tbar, nothing to add to so many good responses. Glad to see a responsible person learning to shoot. Consider joining the NRA, even if you don't agree with all the political stuff, it's still the largest organization looking out for the rights of gun owners.

Ahhh. Can't resist. Shoot a .22 pistol of your choice a lot; it's the most economical way to get a lot of rounds of experience. You may never need another gun, but if you go the route of so many with a .40 auto, shoot 'em all & buy the one you like best. I've a SIG P229; shot Glock, H&K, liked SIG best.

Safe shooting.

Ad Astra

and Congrats to not2sharp on post #8,000!
 
If your thinking of competitive shooting like IDPA you might want to attend a few shoots and see what folks are shooting it might save a bunch of money :eek:
 
No matter WHAT 9mm you buy....
Go and get a 22LR to practice with.
You can develope some bad habits by learning with a cartridge that very much recoil.
Plus, you can shoot five to ten times as long without getting tired, and for less money....
Now do not get me wrong...
Practice with a 22LR is no substitute for practice with the 9mm, but I think about 90%/10% or 80%/20% would be about optimum...

You could also substitute a GOOD pellet gun for the 22LR, but MOST really good pellet guns cost MORE than a good 22LR!
The ammo costs can quickly make up for it though...


What you need to learn first is sighting and trigger control, and those are learned best by lots and LOTS of practice!
And that is what 22LRs and pellet guns excel at!
 
tbarahon said:
That is an option...but if were ever in the position of having to fire a 40 something magnum in my appartment, it would probably go through three or four units before hitting something solid...like a ship or something on the ocean five blocks away. I can hear my neighbour going to the toilet and tell if he used toilet paper or not.
I don't think I want to have a gun for self defense before I know how to use it properly. I do not think the " one shot a second. no holstering or unholstering on range" kinda training I am having now counts. Any recomendations on that?

Tbar
Click to expand...

Get frangable rounds that will not penetrate walls...
Glaser safty rounds were made for use in airplanes(!!), so they are safe.
The only problem with rounds like that, is that they SOMETIMES can be stopped by heavy leather jackets, and heavy winter coats(but I do not think you have to worry much about THAT!!)
 
I recommend starting with a good 4" revolver, like the GP100 or S& W. If you can find one, get a K-22. I have a 4" and it is great for practice.

I started with a pistol and regretted it. You need to put lots of rounds through a pistol before you can rely on it, and you need to carefully check out the ammo you want to use for defense. If you shoot weekly, a pistol is fine. If you can't get out that often, a revolver is better - especially for a new shooter.

If you wake up in the middle of the night, do you want to deal with a more complicated gun?

I own a Browning HP, a Ruger 9, P89, and 3 revolvers. All are reliable, but the pistols may choke on some brands or variations of styles of ammo. My Browning eats everything, but the Ruger does not like the new Corbon 115HP.
You can check to see if the ammo will work in your revolver when you load it, without firing the stuff.

A revolver will also handle Glasers or Magsafes without having to try out 150 rds. to check functioning. That is a lot of money on ammo!

I have seen revolvers in rental ranges that were out of time, and where the cylinder actually rubbed against the barrel when some chambers came up. One gun I saw looked like it hadn't been cleaned since 1980.

If you try out a revolver at a range, make sure that the trigger action is similar for all of the chambers....with the gun empty, of course, and pointed down range.
 
tbarahon said:
I knew I was going to fall in love with the more expensive one of the bunch. I think it is my genes. My paternal grandfather was a policeman for more than 40 years, and his brother was one of the best rifle and shotgun gunsmith there was in Spain. I still remember a .416 rigby rifle he built on a Mauser action for a client to go to Africa for the Big 5 :eek:
Tbar
Click to expand...

We must be related....

I went into a jewlery store to look at some watches for me and my mother...

I saw a nice blace faced plain looking one with a square face and 2 dials...
I asked to look at it, and the salesman said 'Oh, you have good tast'....
I KNEW I was in trouble then!!!
When I asked about the price, it turned out to be OVER $25,000.00!!!:eek:
Tried to pick out one for my mother, and it was a bargan at 'only' $16,000!

Everytime I try to go get something, this happens...
When I was a kid, I was sitting in a doctors office looking at a photography magazine and saw a review of a nice simple looking camera, and fell in love with it...It was a Nikon F2 of course...
Well, I managed to talk my grandmother into getting it for me, and as far as an investmant goes, I guess you could consider it a bargin, because it is STILL my primary(film) camera and I got it well over 25 YEARS ago!
 
Hi jamesraykenney, we are probably family. The first watch I wanted to buy happened to be a $5,400 Omega.
Kismet,
Sorry for messing up your name. Please excuse me :foot:
Thanks to you all for all the info. I will buy good electronic hearing protection. The .22 sounds better and better everytime as a first gun. I will also try again the revolvers and the Glocks next time at the range.

Thanks to you all again.

Tbar
 
Busy week that carried into the weekend, so I'm entering fray late . . .

I second the motions that your first handgun should be a .22, and IMO a revolver. The 6" S&W K-22 (Model 17) is kinda spendy, and the 4" Model 18 is right tough to find anymore and will be higher in $$$. A used 6" Model 17 should be around $300. That will be the best $300 you've ever spent and will give HOURS of shooting enjoyment with very little outlay. Any trigger discipline gained with a 22 revolver OR 22 auto like the Ruger MkII, Buckmark, or if you have the $600-$700, a S&W Model 41 will count towards trigger discipline with a centerfire handgun.

Regarding the 9mms, I also stress that you should go with what is the most comfortable above all, because you will naturally shoot it better. I once owned two Glocks, a 17 and a 19, but sold them after I bought another polymer-framed auto, a Springfield XD9 (actually the predecessor, the HS2000 -- same gun). The XD fit my hand much better than the "furring strip" - like Glock grip, and my groups tightened by between 1/2" and 1" at 25 yards with the XD/HS. So I kept the XD/HS.

Having been brought up on 1911s and Browning High Powers, I gravitate to those in autos. I much prefer the curved backstrap of the BHP, and the similar grips of the Springfield XD and the CZ 75 and CZ 85. They are intrinsically comfortable grips, not unlike that of the SIG 220/226 but IMO more comfortable.

IMO, you owe it to yourself to try a 9mm BHP, CZ 75, and maybe a Springfield XD. Of the three, only the CZ 75 is double action; the BHP and XD are single action, so the CZ, SIG, Beretta, and H&K are all similar in that regard. The Ruger auto is a robust handgun, but they DO NOT fit my hand and thus I cannot hit scheisse with one -- again, buy something that is comfortable.

The CZ is an outstanding buy; it is a time-tested design, well built, and priced generally less than $400 in the rest of the US, dunno about Kali.

I've owned two Beretta 92s at different times, neither of which was regulated well and did not hit POI to POA. Both got sold. Berettas also had trouble early on with slides cracking in the area of the locking lug recesses. YMMV.

I own two SIG P220s, one is the 70s-vintage Browning BDA 45 with the heel mag release, which I tend to prefer for some perverted reason. The other is a 90s vintage 220. Both are tackdrivers, well-made, and very comfortable to shoot. Lots of police trade-in P226s out on the market at the moment if you are looking for something inexpensive. The trades are going for around $375 to $450 in PA, about the price for a NEW CZ 75B.

I briefly had an H&K 45 that belonged to a friend. I "gun sat" for him while he was away for 8 months, and got to play with them and clean them. I did exercise the H&K and decided it was too big, and typically too complicated in a Teutonic sort of way (I can say that; I'm half German). Lotsa little bitty parts and pins and whatnot inside. That said, not that the CZ and the SIG are NOT complicated, it's just that the H&K is a bit more complicated, IMO.

My standard for complicated are the 1911 and the BHP. I maintained 1911s as a Marine armorer (2111) in the early 70s, and it and the BHP are about the simplest designs out there. Very easy to disassemble and maintain. Glocks and XDs are also very simple and easy to care for. However, that should be a secondary or tertiary factor for you. First, get a .22 and practice a LOT. Second, select a centerfire handgun on the basis of comfort, accuracy, and simplicity in that order. A 9mm will be the least expensive to shoot because ammo for it tends to be 20% to 30% less than that for something chambered in 40 S&W or 45 ACP. And forget the 45 GAP, IMO. The 45 ACP can do anything it can do.

Finally, don't succumb to the "Ultra-Micro-Carry-Compact" fever that is raging in the marketplace at the moment. Stick with a full size centerfire auto for the first one, and master shooting with it.

You are absolutely doing the right thing by "test driving" different handguns at courses and ranges. But everybody has opinions, and the ones to be wary of are the ones proffered by young "Gun Shop Commando" clerks. You want additional advice, seek somebody that has BTDT, or a graybeard, not somebody that still uses Clearasil.

Best wishes!

Noah
 
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