Kitchen cleaver handle unglued/broken

PEU

Gaucho Knifemaker
Joined
Aug 6, 2006
Messages
1,184
This week I finished a kitchen cleaver for a customer, to assure him it will withstand heavy duty I hammered with it diverse stuff, everything went as expected but, it failed where I less expected a failure, at the handle. The paper micarta unglued I guess due to the vibration, I used epoxy.

I will redo the handle ASAP, but in the meantime, what would you guys suggest to avoid this happen again?

I was thinking in doing 3 holes and using loveless bolts, its going to be a pita to unharden Bohler K720 (O2), but its my best option so far...

Thanks!!


Pablo

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Main purpose of epoxy (besides helping with the bonding) is to keep stuff out from under the scales. You should always use some sort of mechanical means of securing the handle. Epoxy doesn't handle shear to well and that is what the mechanical fasteners provide.
 
What kind of epoxy did you use?

As to drilling holes, you shouldn't need to soften the steel. Just use a carbide bit. I use glass bits that I get at HD for like ten bucks a pop. Goes through tempered O1 no problem at all.
 
more, better epoxy!
Drill some divots on the underside of the scales for the epoxy to pool, and clamp *lightly* to avoid glue-starved joints.

Love that handle, btw, despite the obvious issue.
 
You should never use just glue.

Use a carbide bit and put in two Corby or Loveless bolts. Those and epoxy will assure the scales will remain forever on the tang.
 
Did yo u n glue the liner to the handle scale before attaching them to the tang?

yes I always glue the liner to the scale prior profiling them

What kind of epoxy did you use?


As to drilling holes, you shouldn't need to soften the steel. Just use a carbide bit. I use glass bits that I get at HD for like ten bucks a pop. Goes through tempered O1 no problem at all.

local epoxy brand settles in 10 minutes, will try a 5/32"4mm carbide drill bit before attempting to unharden

more, better epoxy!
Drill some divots on the underside of the scales for the epoxy to pool, and clamp *lightly* to avoid glue-starved joints.

Love that handle, btw, despite the obvious issue.

I always do divots in the scales, the divots always go thru the liner

You should never use just glue.


Use a carbide bit and put in two Corby or Loveless bolts. Those and epoxy will assure the scales will remain forever on the tang.

will do!

Next week will be fixed...!

Here is a video I made cutting 3/16" aluminum rod

[video=youtube;v32gmORgQXA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v32gmORgQXA[/video]


Pablo
 
Open up the holes in the blade with a masonary bit and use the Loveless bolts as you mentioned.

It will not do that again.
 
Looks like you use pins as well. Peen the pins and it will hold as well as corby bolts. Also, 10 min epoxy is pretty crappy for impact strength. Get a slow cure epoxy designed for impact resilience like G-Flex.
 
i see 6 pins in the handle, if you put new pins in and dome them, it should hold with out having to drill new holes.
 
Looks like you use pins as well. Peen the pins and it will hold as well as corby bolts. Also, 10 min epoxy is pretty crappy for impact strength. Get a slow cure epoxy designed for impact resilience like G-Flex.
I agree with Rick, I would use some better epoxy, that with your pins--which look good to me--should keep that micarta good for a lifetime.
 
Everyone here seems to be omitting the importance of surface prep. In addition to all that's being said, make sure you're following the instructions that come with the epoxy.

Quoted directly from BladeBond's technical data website, for example:

Surface Preparation
Probably the most misunderstood and incorrectly practiced routine in proper use of epoxy. It is VITALLY important that when gluing two things together that both mating surfaces are extremely clean and free of contaminants. and properly abraded to provide adequate "tooth" for everything to stick. However...and this is where most folks get it wrong...there is a VERY specific sequence in which this must happen, and its totally backwards from what most everyone thinks! The first step in proper surface prep is to degrease and decontaminate, which is best done with a Acetone or Denatured alcohol. Degreasing should be done in 2 stages. First thoroughly wipe the mating surfaces with a cloth dampened with the solvent, then do a second wipe down with a CLEAN DRY cloth to remove any contaminants that may have settled with the remaining solvent. Think of this as a 2 part "wash and rinse" cycle. Allow to dry thoroughly. Next we must abrade the mating surfaces to provide adequate tooth for the epoxy. Here's where I may leave most of you scratching your heads. If you can help it, do not use sandpaper to surface prep metal. Sandpaper is fine to prep wood, and even synthetics, but is not the most efficient of the abrasives to properly prep a steel surface. There are two really good methods of prepping metal; abrasive blasting using aluminum oxide and Scotchbrite abrasive surface prep pads. For knife making I prefer abrasive blasting with 80-120 grit aluminum oxide, as I feel it provides the optimum surface of totally clean fresh metal with the proper surface pattern. Scotchbrite is a close second, and I prefer the 7447 maroon pads. The key here is that your abrading CLEAN metal...not cleaning abraded metal!!! This is essential to understand, as most folks get it the other way around. The reason being is that it is much harder to remove surface contaminants that have settled into an abraded surface than it is to remove them from a smooth one.The second thing to understand is that once the metal is cleaned and abraded...DO NOT UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES re-wipe with a solvent. At this point there is absolutely nothing you can do to improve the condition of the surface. Applying more solvent will only increase the chance of contamination, because most readily available solvents contain some level of impurities. If you must clean the surface of the residual sanding dust, use an air compressor to blow off the residual debris...but DO NOT apply anymore solvent! Now you may go about the business of applying the mixed epoxy and clamping the mating surfaces for the allotted cure cycle.
 
The epoxy I use, according to the technical data sheeth, you can ad more or less hardener to have the hardened epoxy be harder and more moisture/chemical resistant or softer and more flexible.
I use UHU Endfest.
I don't know if your epoxy works like that as well, you might want to use a different epoxy
 
Looks like you use pins as well. Peen the pins and it will hold as well as corby bolts. Also, 10 min epoxy is pretty crappy for impact strength.

i see 6 pins in the handle, if you put new pins in and dome them, it should hold with out having to drill new holes.

Meant to add that I agree with Rick and John on all fronts, here. There's no reason to use anything more than you already have, it just needs to be used right. Peened pins will work.

Also, I suspect in addition to not having proper surface prep, you may also have glue-starved joints. There's no way this should have happened, no matter how much impact it's seen.

Great looking cleaver, btw.:thumbup:
 
Thanks guys again!

Will post photos of the removed scales once I get the cleaver fixed.


Pablo
 
Matthew has it right, from surface prep to epoxy...... and with those pins you shouldn't need any other bolts or screws to hold that handle. I think all the other folks missed seeing the pins you've got in the handle - I know I did until it was pointed out by Rick 'n Woodster.

10 minute epoxy just don't works so good!
 
AND...... don't use a steel maul to strike your blade for testing. At least JB Weld a piece of micarta or brass to the face. Steel on steel is no good. You think your testing the edge but all the stress is on the spine.
 
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