kitchen knife questions

fishface5

fishface5

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I notice when sharpening my relatives' and friends' kinves that they say they use their small knives the most but they are generally the crappiest quality. I would like to make a bunch of small thin slicers (probably 3" blade or so) for them and to reduce my own aggravation. I've done a lot of mods and made one knife from scratch so far, I have the basic power tools. So my questions for the experts are:
What is the optimal stainless steel type and stock thickness? It should have high edge retention.
What is the best place to order that steel and have the blanks waterjet cut?
I will send them to Bos or Peters for heat treat.
Thanks!
 
I like S35VN in .06 thickness. Harden it to 60 RC. Others will tell you AEB-L, hardened to Rc 61-63. AEB-L can be gotten slightly sharper but S35VN will maintain 95% sharpness quite a bit longer than the AEB-L will maintain it's 95% sharpness. The percentages, lest someone take me to task, are guesses. They may be 98% or they may be 90%. My relatives, who only sharpen their knives one a year, whether they need it or not, love the S35VN knives I have made for them.

Aldo's, the last time I looked, had a good price and inventory of AEB-L. Niagara Specialty Metals, www.nsm-ny.com, seems to have the best stock of S35VN.

Unless you are planning to make at least 30 of them, I wouldn't bother to have them water jet cut. The set-up cost might be pretty high for that small a quantity.

Tim
 
Thanks for rhe info! One question though, .06" stock is so thin does that mean don't grind any bevel until after heat treat?
 
It's funny... home cooks tend to use small knives for everything...

A professional chef seems to reach for the biggest blade he can find. Even to carve a rose in a turnip...

But you're correct. Most commercial paring knives and the like are utter crap. They're also hucked in the dishwasher with the spoons... Make sure your end users know better...

-Eric
 
LucyCustomKnives said:
It's funny... home cooks tend to use small knives for everything...

A professional chef seems to reach for the biggest blade he can find. Even to carve a rose in a turnip...

-Eric
Click to expand...

Isn't that the truth! I'm working on a prototype set for myself in cannon steel, then I'll remake them in stainless. I think a small parer, a middle petty/slicer, an a 240-270mm chefs are all 90% of people need.
 
If it was my project I would get in touch with Aldo's son Peter. He does all the waterjetting for Aldo and you can get both the steel and waterjetting done right there and save some $$ on shipping. They can also ship the blades directly to Peters for you so once you get them from Peters all you'll have to do is go to work. They can also cut the exact size plate of steel needed to cut out the number of blades you want thus eliminating any wasted steel.
As far as steel choice, I would go with .070" AEB-L hardened to HRC-62 and never look back. Let us know what you decide on and how it works out.
 
Taja said:
Why professional cooks like long knives?
Click to expand...
I don't even pretend to cook. Except for on the trail. There I can cook... but everyone is so hungry fried doo-doo would taste good.

I just happened to notice this phenomenon. (The key to not being able to cook worth a darn and still be able to eat well is to have a lot of professional chef friends...) I have declared over and over that I wouldn't do kitchen knives, since I don't have the first clue about geometry that works good in the kitchen. And I loathe what people do with fine cutlery... namely chucking it in the dishwasher. :grumpy:

But, I am about to honor my first request for a chef's knife for a close friend and professional chef. He begged, and brought alcohol, so I caved. It came up in conversation with him when asked what he favored... The longer the better was his request... Then I happened to think that I've never seen any of my four chef friends with smaller knives in their hand in the kitchen. And they aren't exactly banquet chefs so it isn't for volume cutting.

Upon pondering it for way longer than deserves credit probably (alcohol), I arrived on this: I think it is because big stuff can't be cut with a small knife, but small stuff CAN be cut with a big knife. Kitchens are all about efficiency. Having sixteen blades to do sixteen things isn't efficient. Thus, the bigger the blade the better.

Hopefully one of the kitchenistas can chime in and either confirm this or tell me I'm full of dishwater.

-Eric
 
many cooks use 8-10 inch chef knives but guys on the "line" doing prep work often look for 7-8 inch and a heel that is not as tall as a full sized chef. prep cooks often dont have the space to swing around a long blade. my line knives are hollow ground(48" platten ) on both sides edge to spine on 3/32 thick xhp. i have been selling a pile of them
as for the home cook i wish i woudl not have sold my nakiri now thta its canning time i miss it alot and have been using my 13 inch suji/slicer since it has alot of flat edge before curving up to the tip. i had a santuko once but i dont see that happening ever again. i house right now 13 inch slicer 9 inch chef 6 inch utility and 2.5 parer
 
fishface5 said:
I appreciate the input so far! No love for super-steels though?
Click to expand...

The greater the alloying content, the less fine the grain is typically. It's too much of a trade off for a fine edge. If you need more edge retention than with S35VN, you need to look at your cutting board or cutting technique.

Butch does a lot of kitchen knives, so he gives very good advice.:thumbup: Darrin does as well. :thumbup:
 
Taja said:
Why professional cooks like long knives?
Click to expand...


Once decent knife skills are acquired in the kitchen, it is very easy to see that a large knife is just more efficient and versatile. Just a few reasons:
It stays sharper longer because of more edge than a small knife
It has more mass behind it to reduce the effort needed
It has a thin tip area for delicate cuts and a stronger heal area for cutting harder food
It can cut small and big stuff, not just one or the other (as mentioned above)
Since it is used so much and so versatile it is usually near by and ready for action instead of across the kitchen in a knife block
Since it is efficient and versatile you use it the most and it just becomes habit to reach for that knife
 
Right.
Space available is one big reason, and the other is that it simply takes more practice to use a larger one well.
There's not an accidental centimeter on a really good cooking knife- every angle and curve is intentional, from butt to tip. Not like a typical home made knife where the object is mainly to make it look cool.
 
fishface5 said:
I appreciate the input so far! No love for super-steels though?
Click to expand...

It just depends on whom you ask. I get about the same interest in "super steel" CPM-154, S35VN and Elmax kitchen blades as I do for ones in "regular steel" AEB-L or 52100. Use whichever you and your friends/customers are comfortable with. With good geometry and good HT, all of them will far out-perform and outlast anything on the shelf at the department stores.

Taja said:
Why professional cooks like long knives?
Click to expand...

Because they really know how to use them. A trained, skilled person can do pretty much anything in the kitchen with a good 8-10" chef's knife. Most of them do recommend having a quality paring knife as well, though.

Read and re-read anything Butch posts on this topic. :thumbup:

darrin sanders said:
If it was my project I would get in touch with Aldo's son Peter. He does all the waterjetting for Aldo and you can get both the steel and waterjetting done right there and save some $$ on shipping. They can also ship the blades directly to Peters for you so once you get them from Peters all you'll have to do is go to work. They can also cut the exact size plate of steel needed to cut out the number of blades you want thus eliminating any wasted steel.
Click to expand...

If you're going to make a bunch, that's exactly what I would do, too.
 
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Hey Lucy,
I cook on the trail too. Freeze dried , add boiling water, fold top back over package, wait 5 minutes (10 is better), spoon into stainless cup, eat hearty.

Tim
 
Ok thanks i will still go smallish since my folks prefer them but will go with thin s35v probably. Must now make the design then contact Aldo!
 
tim37a said:
Hey Lucy,
I cook on the trail too. Freeze dried , add boiling water, fold top back over package, wait 5 minutes (10 is better), spoon into stainless cup, eat hearty.

Tim
Click to expand...
When I did my lower half of the AT years ago I ate so much freeze dried food I could hardly digest real food when I got back to the world. And I was one of those weird guys who had to sleep in my mummy bag on the floor for a few nights before I could sleep in the bed... but that's another story...

I usually use one of two folders, a fillet knife, my pack knife or a camp knife for almost everything if real food is involved... So again, my knowledge of real kitchen knives is about nil.

-Eric
 
Eric, What is the AT? Here on the West Coast we hike the Pacific Crest Trail which runs from Canada to Mexico. I use a modified mummy and a ThermaRest pad. The transition from that to a bed is easy.

Tim
Sorry fishface5. Didn't mean to hijack your thread.
 
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