Kitchen Knife set advice

U

unky_gumbi

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Aug 28, 2009
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So after seeing the knife I am sending to my brother, my mother has decided that she would like me to make her a set of kitchen knives. After a few long distance phone calls with her to find out just what she would like this is what I have come up with, but now I need the advice from the guys that know better.

set_4.jpg


When chopping she rocks the blade on the cutting board, so that is why the curve on the two larger blades, but from what she was saying it is the two smaller ones that will get used the most, about 90% of the time.

For steel I will be going with one of the 154 variations CPM 154 is my first choice 154 CM is good for me too. They will have some sort of smokey burl scales and full tangs, with flat grinds.

What I need to know is what thickness for each size, and at what thickness do I have to HT before grinding? Also any little tweaks to the profiles that I may have to do.
She already knows that I wont be starting on these till I get my grinder up and running.

thanks and Merry Christmas and Seasons Greeting everyone.

George
 
I'd go with 3/32 for the first and 1/16 for the others. HT before grinding is optional, I've
done it both ways. Before means less chance of warping but more care needed to avoid
overheating any of the edges.
 
Dan Pierson said:
I'd go with 3/32 for the first and 1/16 for the others. HT before grinding is optional, I've
done it both ways. Before means less chance of warping but more care needed to avoid
overheating any of the edges.
Click to expand...

I agree with Dan,thinner is better.Also use stabilized wood and corbys for handle attachment.
Stan
 
SBuzek said:
I agree with Dan,thinner is better.Also use stabilized wood and corbys for handle attachment.
Stan
Click to expand...

My bad I didn't state that the scales would be stabilized, but yes that is my intention. Question about corbys, do they come in a polish able stainless? She was quite adamant about wanting the hardware to be mirror polished to match the hardware on her new cupboards. If I can get them that way that's how I will go.

There wouldn't be much pre ht grinding on the 1/16 steel would there? Or can you go thinner with stainless?
 
Yep you can get corbys in stainless and get them to mirror polish. On1/16" blades I profile then just bevel the edge at 45* and then grind after H/T.
Stan
 
OK:thumbup: thanks for the info. Now to start my hardware and wood search, in between cooking an over sized turkey and sanding out the last of the 3 blades I had HT'd .
 
George,
On the handle design, how did you arrive at that particular design? I know theres a lot of personal preference in the decision, but I am trying to decide about the drop in the rear of the handle and how it all factors in with certain grips. Looking at the oval and octagon handles makes me think it should be straighter ?? Maybe Im "over thinking" this...........:o

I have my steel already from Aldo 1/16th in S35VN, so Im looking at designs right now too.

Larry
 
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I haven't completely settled on the handle shape and sizes yet. I will cut out some cardboard and do a little playing with some modeling clay to get them feeling right first. Right now it looks like my main problem will be finding 1/16" steel up here in Canada, my normal supplier is only showing 3/32" right now. I will give them a call in a week or so to see if they can get some in, otherwise I will have to order the thinner steel for across the border.

I have lots of time though, I still need to buy my VFD to get my grinder working so I can make these.
 
I agree with the steel choice, thin stock and SS corbys

What I suggest with profile
Get your hands on the one knife she uses the most and copy that
(or a photo)
This is possibly or most likely a paring knife - make a few of those.

On the drawings yous have shown, I don't like the very sharp internal corner at the "guard" between heel and handle.
 
Im not saying theres anything wrong with the design at all. It looks like a classic shape. Im just thinking about the different designs, and my old Henckels have a similiar handle shape like your sketch. Im just wondering if you go with thinner steel would that change how your using a chopper for instance? I really don't know....:D
 
Might I make another recommendation?

Since you'll be trying a few new methods out with this set, I recommend that you design an additional knife to do all of your experimenting on before you try these methods on the complete set. Plus, then you'll have a knife for your own kitchen at the end of it.
 
12345678910 said:
I agree with the steel choice, thin stock and SS corbys

What I suggest with profile
Get your hands on the one knife she uses the most and copy that
(or a photo)
This is possibly or most likely a paring knife - make a few of those.

On the drawings yous have shown, I don't like the very sharp internal corner at the "guard" between heel and handle.
Click to expand...

Its kind of hard for me to get my hands on one of her knives because she live out by Ottawa, but she still has the same knives as when I was a kid and she has never liked them.

A couple of years ago she was up here visiting and got a hold of my 10 "chefs knife and loved the way it felt but it was a bit big for her. What the top two are down sized versions of that knife, the utility and paring knife are a combination of about 5 pictures she sent me of knives she has handled and liked. the pictures look like it is a sharp transition between the handle and the blade, but even on my 24" screen they are only 37% of their actual size. The radius of the actual curves is 1/4" on the bigger blades and 1/8" on the smaller two.

I have been searching for 1/16" CPM 154 and 154CM and am having zero luck, does it even come in that thickness? If not would I be able to have it ground down to what I need? I am currently working on another Bowie for a machinist friend in exchange for some machine work so I could get him to grind it down for me. as part of the exchange
 
Your probably gonna have to have it ground down,I haven't seen any either,I usually use 1/16" 440-c for kitchen knives.Works real well if H/Ted properly.
Stan
 
ican see only 2 things
that i would look at not that they would need changed if you like then and thing she will like the too

the smallest parrer handle is too short (keep the next larger handle size and put the smaller blade on it )
and i too think that the drop fromm handle to blade heel is a bit steep and adbrupt ( i use a 3/4 inch wheel to shape that part then round the steel to not have any hot spots at the front of the handle

other then that maybe (if she would use the nikari style ) might be the better 5-6 inch blade and if she rocks the blade jsut put a half round point on the end and not the sharp 90 degree tip that is commonly seen. the longer flat is great on a cuttingboard and the taller profile (once she gets used to it ) makes proper cutting easy cause of keeping her knuckles touching the blade at all the times in the cutting motion (the rounded tip means she can still rock it tooo )
 
The angle where the blade meets the handle isn't a problem for me. Looking at my japanese kitchen knives, almost all of them have that feature. But one other thing they do is actually pull the handle back a little so that there's a decent amount of ricasso before the profile scoops out towards the edge.

here's an example:

knives.jpg
 
Stainless Steel Cutlery Rivets instead of Corbys. They work better on kitchen knives. I would use G10 for handles. Kitchen knives will end up in a dishwasher or setting in water overnight.
I just made my family members Paring knives. 440c, G10, and Cutlery rivets. Dishwasher safe.
 
Los Angeles said:
The angle where the blade meets the handle isn't a problem for me. Looking at my japanese kitchen knives, almost all of them have that feature. But one other thing they do is actually pull the handle back a little so that there's a decent amount of ricasso before the profile scoops out towards the edge.

here's an example:

knives.jpg
Click to expand...

I see what you mean, but like I said I am going to play with them in cardboard first with some modeling clay for scales to get a feel of what the handle will feel like. If my design feels off it will be easy to add a bit to ricasso while still in the planning stage. your suggestion will be in the back of my mind influencing me regardless:D

butcher_block said:
ican see only 2 things
that i would look at not that they would need changed if you like then and thing she will like the too

the smallest parrer handle is too short (keep the next larger handle size and put the smaller blade on it )
and i too think that the drop fromm handle to blade heel is a bit steep and adbrupt ( i use a 3/4 inch wheel to shape that part then round the steel to not have any hot spots at the front of the handle

other then that maybe (if she would use the nikari style ) might be the better 5-6 inch blade and if she rocks the blade jsut put a half round point on the end and not the sharp 90 degree tip that is commonly seen. the longer flat is great on a cuttingboard and the taller profile (once she gets used to it ) makes proper cutting easy cause of keeping her knuckles touching the blade at all the times in the cutting motion (the rounded tip means she can still rock it tooo )
Click to expand...

Yup it is too short, I have already added the handle from the utility knife to the paring knife. visually it looks a little unbalanced but it is the usability that really matters here as that will be the one she will use the most

BlackToe Knives said:
Stainless Steel Cutlery Rivets instead of Corbys. They work better on kitchen knives. I would use G10 for handles. Kitchen knives will end up in a dishwasher or setting in water overnight.
I just made my family members Paring knives. 440c, G10, and Cutlery rivets. Dishwasher safe.
Click to expand...

I don't have to worry about her sticking them in a dish washer, she is in the midst of having her kitchen redone and there will no longer be a dishwasher. She decided that she would rather have the storage space, and since all the kids have grown up and moved away she doesn't have enough dishes to use it with just her there. Also we never left dishes sitting in the sink, because we only had one sink, not a double. Even now dishes sitting in the sink bothers the crap out of her.
The G-10 is out too, she wants the scales to match her new counter tops so its going to be the smokey dyed burl scales, I have some smokey birch here and can get more to match.
 
One small thing...
On the two larger knives, for comfort, round the spine. Not flat with with 90 degree edges. Most chefs will hold the knife on the ricasso area with forefinger and thumb. It provides more control.

The spine of the blade will rest at the base of the forefinger. A right angle at this point is very uncomfortable and will cause a blister after a bit of use. This is why I have a callous at the base of my forefinger.

Craig
 
your righ most "chefs" use pinch grip but you will find most home users dont have all the proper knife skills (not saying thats the case here)
rounding part of the spine and the back of the heel for sure is the best bet

so far as the balance look of the handle to blade in the kitchen you can all but toss those thoughts out

Unky im sure you will be jsut fine after all we are all guessing about what she will like to use but you know better then any of us what will work
 
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