Kitchen knives and blade steel

[Crayola]

Blackwatch,

I think this is one area where custom makers will definitely be shining for a while. 98% of the people out there don't care what their metal sticks are made of (a metal stick is a thing that looks liek a knife, but sure doesn't cut.) But for the other 2% who would consider something better, you have custom makers who can fill in the gap economically.

I have been thinking exactly the way you have lately. I, Crayola, am a knifemaker! Having made 5 knives so far, I decided to make up a batch of 15 knives! Well, 8 kitchen knives and 1 belt knife is heat treated and I have to finish them. The 8 knvies will be matched pairs of a 4.5"ish utility piece and a paring knife. Blade material? 440-C!!!! Theya re gonna be sweet. Hopefully I can find buyers for them, and any feedback I get I'll for sure report in. By the way, the blades are 1/16" thick and fully flat ground (as best I could), so they are gonna be sweet cutters!

 

[rdangerer]

Originally posted by Jeff Clark
... premium German brands ...a typical alloy would be X50CrMoV15 which contains carbon, chrome, molybdenum and vanadium.

In fact, I believe this is what Messermeister uses in their Meridian Elite line. I asked the steel question, and got that info back in a response from Messermeister.

Chris Reeve sells Messermeister kitchen knives off his site, stating that:

The search for culinary knives that compliment ours has led to the German-made Messermeister knives... I have developed a keen sense as to what constitutes a good quality culinary knife. The Messermeister Meridian Elite series is as good as it gets! The consistent quality from shipment to shipment is excellent. Prior to the Meridian Elite series, we used to resharpen each of the culinary knives to our own specifications. Not so with the Meridian Elite! Out of the box, these knives are as sharp as our own knives.

 

[rdangerer]

This has been a very informative thread and I wanna thank all those that took time to respond.

In particular, I want to single out these posts:

Originally posted by Jeff Clark
The ones with moly in them are such a hastle to sharpen that I don't attempt it by hand anymore, even with a large coarse diamond hone. I use a belt sander. An average person would never be able to sharpen one of these once it got dull.

Alloys with a pinch of Vanadium (.2% to .4%) make a practical blade for the common man (or woman). The Japanese MAC knives have Vanadium and Tungsten in small amounts and take a tremendous edge. This is similar to AUS-8. The kitchen knives from AG Russell seem to use a similar alloy. Spyderco uses a simpler stainless called MBS-26 that falls into this league. These alloys are the type that I would use the most and the highest end steels that I would give a friend.

I nearly always get something of value from Jeff Clark's posts... thanks Jeff. I think you were the first guy I recall making this point about how signif molyb content just makes knives hard to sharpen, and that the molycarbides aren't worth the trouble whereas Vanadium carbides are helpful. An interesting point.

I've noticed that recent Benchmade ATS-34 production is harder to sharpen than earlier, and it must be in heat treat (Harildstad suggested it could be a higher tempering temp). Moly helps reduce pitting corrosion, but is in high qty of 4% in 154CM, ATS-34, and BG-42 mostly for high temp hardness retention in aerospace bearings.

Originally posted by chrisaloia
henckels welds their knives in 3 places. they don't even forge they get away with advertising forged cause they forge the bolsters. they use crappy still now. pre 70-80's they used great steel.

wusthoff is the way to go in stainless. they still do a great job. though I am a sabatier carbon fan. they use 1095 and boy it gets sharp fast. I'll have them till I die.

Of the "mainstream" German Co's, Wusthoff and Messermeister keep bubbling to the top among those who are into this knife stuff.

Originally posted by Steven Dick
There are higher grades of kitchen knives out there if you are willing to pay the price. Try www.japanese-knife.com or www.knifemerchant.com Both put out catalogs that are even better than their websites.

Thanks Steven. Good leads... I have catalogs on order.

Originally posted by John Chong
... Japanese-made kitchen knives are the way to go...highlight the two main things I like...

1. Steel - From the more traditional "shirogami" and "aogami" (white steel and blue steel respectively), to high end materials like VG-10 and super exotics like ZDP-189 and Cowry X.

2. Sharpness - the Japanese have a thing for sharp edges. Most good knives ... come with a scary sharp edge, a combination of an aggressive edge geometry and thin edge. The caveat here is to find the right knife for the right application.

...Japanese production knives... stuff from Mac and Global are good quality at prices comparable to Wusthof or Henckels. You want something beautiful to boot, try damascus style knives from Kasumi, Ryusen or Hattori. Note: even the Fallkniven VG-10 knife is made in Japan.

Tip: check out Murray Carter... His Muteki line of Japanese kitchen knives is serious bang for the buck. Hey, when you have someone like Jerry Fisk singing the praises for Murray's knives, what else can you ask for?

Good stuff John Chong. More leads to chase down.

Originally posted by kutch133
Fallkniven had two kitchen knives with VG-10. I have one on order. When I get it I'll let you know how it its.

Please do... those two knives caught my eye a while back.