Kitchen Knives: Po'Boy metal selection for campfire (non-metallic) heat treat. 1095?

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Faralon

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Nov 14, 2013
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I know the proper answer is 1084 first, O1 second. (for the most part)

I'm reading that a lot of Chef Knives seem to be .09" or .07" in thickness. Getting 1084 or O1 that thin seems to unavailable from Aldo (as of 5/6/16) . O1 gets close at .110", so I'll fall back to that if necessary.

However, 1095 is available in .07", .09", and its very affordable.

If I go with 1095, and do a campfire heat treat on it (heat to non-metallic and quench), can I expect it to be better or worse than a 1084 steel with the same heat treat?

I'm intrigued by the 1095 as it provides me a chance to play with hamon's, but if not being able to soak it at temp for heat treat will create a less than desirable knife...thoughts?

Trying to keep the costs down, so I don't want to send em out for heat treat.

Thanks!

-Rob


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Choosing betwen Aldo 1084 and 1095 to roast over campfire? I would pick 1095 because 1084 is spheroidized annealed as-sold, which requires normalization to release carbon from iron carbide (cementite). Also would start with a 2.5-3" paring instead of anything larger because roasting = expect warp & twist blade.
 
1095 is hypereutectoid and requires a consistent temperature to properly heat treat. People do it but I think its a waste without proper temp control.

If you want to play with hamons and heat treat in a forge get 1075. Not sure how thin you can get it but you can always grind it down. I have stainless in .110" and find it suitable for full size chef's knives.

-Clint
 
Aldo's 15N20 is your answer I think. Doesn't need to be thermal cycled (although I do anyhow), comes in thin stock sizes, doesn't require a long soak time, and is a great steel.
 
It's non-magnetic not metallic... lol. Sorry... my OCD would not allow it to slip by.

What are you using as your heat source. Please don't say an actual campfire. I took it as a fun poke at simple heat treat. You can get it red and quench in canola. You may end up with a decent knife... or you might have to do it over... or you might make a crappy knife that breaks... etc...

It is all a part of becoming a knifemaker. Failure is your friend and teacher. I make a point of screwing up at least once a week. Don't be afraid to try something(aside from obvious danger to your well-being). Having fun is what it is all about. If you have access to cheap 1095 at the right thickness, go for it. Just be realistic with your expectations. Is 1095 optimal? No. Will you be using the steel's full potential? No. Can you make a decent knife out of it using simple heat treat? Yes. Don't let anybody tell you different.
 
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Do not use 1095. 1095 requires soak time at precise temp. It's easy to over-shoot, and if you do, you will end up with lots of retained austenite and a crummy knife. Use 1084 or 1080 or even 1075. 15n20 would also work great. Even if you overshoot the temperature a bit, you will have a fine knife. I have heat treated Aldo's 1084 numerous times by eye, and made great knives out of it. I cannot speak to whether it comes heavily spheroidized or not. I forge all my blades and then normalize/thermal cycle by eye, which would have long ago dissolved any coarse spheroidal carbides by the time I'm ready to quench.
 
Thanks guys, guess I'll have to wait until Aldo has some 1084 or 1075 in the proper thickness. As for my current heat treat, I use Cowboy Charcoal w/ a hair drier and some black pipe in a campfire setup on the ground. (Poor mans heat treat). And yes, heat to non-magnetic, good catch. /facepalm


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You actually want to heat to slightly higher than non-magnetic. Steel becomes non-magnetic at the Curie point (1414 F) which actually has nothing to do with the steel's critical temperature. It just happens to be conveniently close to the critical point so it lets you know you're in the ball park. If you actually quenched at that temperature, you would not get the blade hard. A better test: in the dark of night, put your steel in the forge and get it good and hot. Take it out and watch it carefully. There will be a point where you will see what looks like a shadow come over the blade. It will start to grow darker, and then, surprisingly, it will get brighter again. This is called decalescence (and recalescence) and occurs when the steel is undergoing phase change. The color of the steel right before it starts turning dark: that's the temperature you want to quench at.

15n20 would be a good choice; doesn't Aldo normally have that in thin stock?

EDIT: just to be clear, the decalescence test is just to get yourself acquainted with the color of quenching temperature. When you actually are quenching your blade, your goal is to heat the blade to that temperature and not higher.
 
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15n20 is best with the soak because of the nickel content. Take note, some of the 15n20 Aldo carries is not fully annealed and is at 42HRC, I believe the .07" stuff. As far as I know the 1095 is coarse spheroidized as well, and in my shop gets the full normalizing/cycling.
 
what are the characteristics of 15n20? is it stainless or high carbon? can it be quenched in canola. Hollah at me with some factoids. I think I have an untapped market for kitchen knives. Rich in laws with lots of rich friends with lots of fancy kitchens..........................:)
 
15N20 is sawblade steel, not stainless. Very tough steel, nickel makes carbon steels more "silver" in color so 15N20 is often used with plain carbon steels for contast in forge welded items. This thread however is specific to using basic heat treat for a kitchen knife, and thus the recomendation of 15N20. Many better high performance steels for the kitchen but all require very exacting and specific heat treat. Personally I consider those who make truly fine kitchen cutlery to be at the pinnacle of blade making, swords hang on walls but chefs cut all day. And they want the absolute best, this, loyalty and word of mouth go hand in hand.
 
Matt is making a good point. A back yard HT quick-and-dirty camp knife or bowie is one thing ... a kitchen knife is another. What you are describing is sort of like asking someone for help making a race car from an old lawnmower and a shopping cart using super glue. Kitchen knives are high performance tools. They not only deserver a good HT, they need it.

Fill out your profile info and let us know where you live and a bit about you, and you may get an offer for help from someone who can do the HT near you.

1095 makes great kitchen knives, so does 52100, and 15N20. AEB-L, S35VN, and CPM-154 all make good stainless kitchen knives. These are available in thinner sizes. All these, including the carbon steels, require proper HT for kitchen knife use.
 
A point- some of the most sought after chef's knives (the vintage Sabatier Nogents in carbon) are (if i remember correctly) something like 1075. If it's going to be used with a steel that's not a bad choice either.
 
Thanks for the replies everyone. Looking to make these for the wife/family. I've just completed making 5 drop point hunters, while also finishing a plywood 2x72 grinder build, and the wife said she wants some knives next. (I'll go fill out my profile a bit more.)

Thanks again.
 
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