Kits

Walt2

Walt2

Joined
Mar 13, 2001
Messages
1,157
I recently became aware that there are some of the lesser known custom makers buy kits and put them together and sell them as custom knives. I have never seen these kits advertised anywhere, where do they find them?
 
There are alot of guys doing this on Ebay. You have to learn what the kit blades look like and what are the tell tale signs are (shape, type of steel, finish ect.). If you guys want a listing of the sellers doing this drop me a private line.

But that said, there is nothing wrong with starting with kits. Heck, thats how I started (I just never called them custom). There are several places to get them.

Me
I sell some of my hand ground blades in "kit" form.

Texas Knifemakers Supply

Knife and Gun Finishing Supplies

Koval

and I am sure quite a few others.
 
Walt
I designed a folder kit for Koval knives.
The intent was for the folks who wanted to make a folder and not have to buy machines ect to have a way to make them. Also its a nice learning tool.

I have noticed folks puting them on there table also.. :rolleyes:

Here is the web addy
www.kovalknives.com

Darrel Ralph 605 folder kit.
 
It's not a great thing to do, selling a kit knife as custom, but I have seen some awesome kit knives. Especially if they start out with your kit Darrell:D :D :D
 
Interesting point Darrel-

At the Northwest Knife Collector's show there was this guy I met with really sloppy work...really sloppy.

But I noticed he had 5 really decent looking folders on his table. As soon as I picked them up the fit and finish was horrible...but you wanna guess why they looked good functionally?

Oh yea, because they were all made of your kit from Koval :)

I still appreciate your intention though Darrel, some guys are just whacky....

Nick
 
Kit knives are Not custom knives. They are pretty easy for the educated buyer to spot, but I think confuse lots of folks who do not know much about the custom knife industry.

It is unfortunate that there are several kit makers selling their wares on eBAY as 'custom' knives. I remember one of these guys even admitted in his eBAY profile that he was more of a handle maker than a knife maker, because he did not make the blades. But this guy still felt he had the right to put his name on the knives, and call them his own.

This sort of thing is why the Knifemakers Guild, the ABS and dealers like Les Robertson are fairly careful about what the definition of a 'custom' knife is. Misuse of this word damages legitimate custom knifemakers, and hurts the market for custom knives by misleading potential customers.

If a maker is honest about the ways he produces the knife, I have no problem with kit knife makers. In fact, I may try my hand at making one myself someday. But I would not feel right about putting my name on a knife whose blade I did not grind and would certainly not call it a 'custom' knife.

When kit makers use the word 'custom', it is misleading to a lot of people and discourteous to folks who really do make 'custom' knives. Searching the word 'custom knife' on eBAT invariably produces an interesting mix of knives. Many (most?) are not custom knives at all.

Paracelsus
 
It all depends on the blank. Every one of Bob Engnaths blades were ground by hand to a ruff finish. If some finished one and wanted to put his name on it, OK go for it. Its would count as handmade but not custom.

On the other hand, those mass produced 6A blades made oversee are neither handmade nor custom.

The guy on Ebay that says he is a handle maker is a sham. I saw one of his first posts and spotted that it was a kit. I looked in his about me file. And all it said was that he made them the old fashioned way - one at a time. I e-mailed him and asked him why he was claiming his knives were custom when they used import mass production blades. He e-mailed back and said stuff that would make a long shoreman blush. I told him that I would just forward my info to Ebay and have him kicked off for fraud. That is when he made the adjustment in his About Me file.

He has even gone as far as to slander me in several of his listings.

Sick part is, he still sales over 20 a month and for about the same as I get for my true customs. OH and he even buys the sheaths pre made.
 
RW, I have noticed the same thing. I used kits to start off, and if people want a kit knife, I will make one up for them, it's fairly cheap and easy to do, and they get a knife quickly :) But the quality is just not there! That's why i did a few kits and haven't touched them since, the HT quality is poor, as is the grind quality. I leanred how to do the handle stuff on the kits, but got bired with them. But the DDR kit is great :) But they didnt cut the handle material square to the bolsters, and it was predrilled, so that kinda sucked. But the blade and lockup were superb! im just gonna buy the knife and do my own handle material slabs. Now, the DDR stuff is the only Kit i will make unless by special request because I like its quality, but I always tell the person its a KIT. I tell them where I got it, who it was designed by, and that I am basically assembling it, not making the whole thing. I sell any kit for 10 to $15 above cost of materials because they are quick for me to do and are not MY blades. My blades cost much more cuz they are much better, Paul Bos does and great HT job!


I saw a maker start making blades from kits, then learned how to grind, only he kept the same exact style as the kits! I guess that would work, but I feel makers should try different patterns and styles, otherwise, what fun is it???
 
So I guess you guys would be irrititated to find out that well known professional knife makers were actually having some of their knives made by another well known knife maker. Then they put their logo on it and passed the knife off as their own.

Talk about the ultimate kit knife!

Yes, this really happened....for several years!

No, I won't tell you who they are so don't ask. However, if you were one of my clients, I would probably discourage you from buying one of those knives.
 
RW, check this out, I think he's offering a kit blade ground by your mentor. I think the spelling of the last name is off, but I think it's supposed to be one of Bob's blades. Is this possible?:confused:

Kit Blade

Just Curious,
Dale.
 
Les-

Sort of like in Loveless's video when he watches over Jim Merrit grind the blade?:rolleyes:

But then again, who's going to really say anything?

RW, it's surprising to me that someone would go to the extent that guy did to put that handle on a 6A stainless blank. If a guy's going to work that much on the handle, you'd think he'd make the blade too.

I guess in the simpler knives this would be easier to hide. What really amuses me is when someone looks at one of my knives where the handle took ten times as long as the blade to make...and they assume that I could make the handle yet had to buy the blade. :p

Nick
 
Did you guys notice he misspelled Bob's last name and in another auction of a blade he said Bob only did flat grinds on his blades. Is that true? I emailed him some questions and will post his reply if I get one.
 
I believe them. The said they ordered the blades straight from Bob in 92 or 93.
 
I would most likely say that it is. Its either a #73, #80 or #74. Two things bother me though. This would be one of his Loveless copies (Bob was the biggest design thief out there, but always with permission :)). What bothers me is the blade lengh listed as 3.5" with the overall of 8.75". Now Bob was pretty carefull about his measurements and non of his Loveless copies match that size. The #80 comes closest at 3.375 and 8.675. The second thing is that non of Bobs Loveless copies have a clip point. They are all DPs.

So this could have been a special order, or maybe done up by Kirk. Or this guy might not be able to measure correctly or may just be rounding numbers.

But dispite that, my money would be a #80. And I would say it is from Bob.

OH and by the way, anyone bid against me and I will bite their faces off :D.

To another question, No Bob did not only do flat grinds. BUT - As far as I know, all of his kits were only flat ground. Now that is as off 1990, before that all bets are off.

He could at least spell Bobs name right :mad:. IT IS ENGNATH!!!!
 
I just remembered some stuff I have packed away. These are rare Engnaths. I have two FORGED DAMSACUS blades forged by Bob (Bob did not forge). He made a total of three blades I think, and he gifted two of them to me. If you would like to see them I will shot some photos and post them up.


I am not joking about not bidding against me!!!! I will make them the most costly blanks in the history of kit blades:).
 
I think the Koval kits Darrel designed are a fantastic deal, especially if you want a taste of how hard making a custom knife is. It was alot of fun putting it together and playing with changes to it.

I just wish he'd forced Koval to put a name or mark on the blades. I've seen them show up twice with another's name etched on the blade, trying to pass them off as their own. Once in the cuttingedge.com (Amy immediately withdrew the knife when she found out it was a fraud), and once by a well known maker, who denied the whole thing.
 
What's all this Kit talk. Years ago I thought about calling my company "Kit Knives". Sure glad I didn't. BTW, all my knives are Kit knives, or is that Kit's knives
 
KIT?
Oh you mean KIT

Hum Damn Kit never thought of that . You should get paid for every knife with the word KIT in it!

:D
 
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