KME Vs. Tormek Vs. Work Sharp Ken Onion Vs. Bench Grinder

[jezzab101]

Just wondering what is the best way to sharpen my knives, I have used a KME and didn't love it, not sure if its because I didn't know how to use it but it took me an hour or so to get an edge on harder steels, I'm a bit of a steel nut so I have a range of different steels from S110V, S90V, S30V, 3V, 20CV, ZDP-189, D2, Elmax, CTS-XHP, CTS-204P and heaps of others and I'm sick of my current sharpening method of pay someone or buy a new knife, I'll mostly be sharpening my EDC blades so folders, and smaller fixed blades, although during hunting season I'll also be sharpening my hunting fixed blades and also my larger camp fixed blades and kitchen knives. So my question is what is the best Sharpening System, Electric or Manual, I like the idea of the WS Ken Onion, and heard Benchmade use them. I already have a bench grinder, so will I be able to get a good edge with some wheels, if so what wheels?, what about the Tormek or should I look at systems like the Wicked Edge and KME?
thanks for the help

 

[mycough]

If you have a bench grinder, paper wheels might be an inexpensive experiment. They work but care must be exercised. Gloves, glasses, and a rugged apron are just good thinking.
There is no best way to sharpen, and certainly no fool proof way. Good luck in you search.

Russ

 

[Fattires]

I have paper wheels on a harbor freight buffer it's a great system for routine sharpening. If an edge is very bad or needs reprofiled the grit wheel isn't coarse enough. So I also got a harbor freight 1x30 belt sander and a bunch of belts from Tru Grit, I think it's the best of both worlds, I work up a bur on the slack portion of the belt then use the slotted paper wheel to remove the bur. It's a fast way to get super sharp.
There is however a bit of a learning curve and you could screw up a knife pretty quickly if you are not careful.

 

[rarreola]

Silly question, Are you using diamond stones?

 

[Bladegunner]

Tried most systems and a belt sander and ended up with a Wicked Edge and am completely satisfied.

 

[wade7575]

I like to use harder steel's and more wear resistant steels as well,I also used to use a KME and still have mine but I got sick of it because the stones are shorter for one thing and also because stone selection really sucked back then and it's still hard to find a place that carries most of the really good stones for a KME.

It's pretty like this with the KME if you use the Gold Series stones they are good for sure but they are still a diamond plate and are going to wear out over time and faster then I would like,also with the stones being shorter that's another problem because you can't get the same stroke as with an edge pro format stone making the task longer as well,also if you were using Chosera stone's to do most of the sharpening they are not the fastest cutting stones at higher grit's and even at lower grit's they are no speed demon when compared to other stones,I use stones like Venev diamonds and Metallic Bonded CBN where they leave more scratch's in the steel and with the Venev the highest grit is 15K and the Metallic Bonded CBN's highest is 8K and I find if you drop back down to a 5K Chosera then it's pretty fast getting the scratch's out because you have refined the scratch pattern to as small as possible and then going to an 8 and 10K Chosera and that's not needed every time so long as you look after the edge and don't roll the edge or chip it.

The other problem could have been that when you sharpened with the KME you did not reset the angle every time to compensate for the difference in stone thickness because that also change's the angle at witch you are sharpening at,I Ron from KME does not care for angle cube's for a reason's but I like them the most important thing to remember is to put the stone holder on the same spot of the blade each time because the angle does change from the heel to the tip.

Just wondering what is the best way to sharpen my knives, I have used a KME and didn't love it, not sure if its because I didn't know how to use it but it took me an hour or so to get an edge on harder steels, I'm a bit of a steel nut so I have a range of different steels from S110V, S90V, S30V, 3V, 20CV, ZDP-189, D2, Elmax, CTS-XHP, CTS-204P and heaps of others and I'm sick of my current sharpening method of pay someone or buy a new knife, I'll mostly be sharpening my EDC blades so folders, and smaller fixed blades, although during hunting season I'll also be sharpening my hunting fixed blades and also my larger camp fixed blades and kitchen knives. So my question is what is the best Sharpening System, Electric or Manual, I like the idea of the WS Ken Onion, and heard Benchmade use them. I already have a bench grinder, so will I be able to get a good edge with some wheels, if so what wheels?, what about the Tormek or should I look at systems like the Wicked Edge and KME?
thanks for the help

 

[jezzab101]

Silly question, Are you using diamond stones?

yeah the KME comes with diamond stones

 

[mycough]

Once again, diamond plates last quite a while as long as you let the diamonds do the work. I have a dmt coarse that is older than some of the people that claim plates dont last, it still cuts and is used regularly.
I have no reason to doubt that the new cbn and diamond products work, but for the money I will stick with atoma, dmt, etc....

Russ

 

[wade7575]

I have no had any problems with the Atoma plates but when it comes to other brands I have to wonder if it isn't more of a consistency problem when they are made as the diamonds just electro plated on and I have talked with enough people who understand that you don't use a lot of pressure or else you wear them out faster and they have had problems so I don't know what to say maybe it's luck of the draw.

I have the Metallic CBN stuff and if your asking me for the money I think they are worth it and they seem to last very well and are going to outlast a diamond plate so for me they are worth it.

Once again, diamond plates last quite a while as long as you let the diamonds do the work. I have a dmt coarse that is older than some of the people that claim plates dont last, it still cuts and is used regularly.
I have no reason to doubt that the new cbn and diamond products work, but for the money I will stick with atoma, dmt, etc....

Russ

 

[mycough]

The plates you use have been out a few years, dmt has been around since the mid 70's.
If you are comparing them you have a long time before it is apples to apples.
I dont want to argue but I hate seeing new people steered the wrong way, especially when it can be very costly.
There are plenty of respected members here who use dmt and atoma often, and for a very long time.
You have been using these new stones since january, get back to us after a couple thousand sharpenings and 10 or 15 years, I will be all ears.


Russ

 

[Pcexbird]

I like to use harder steel's and more wear resistant steels as well,I also used to use a KME and still have mine but I got sick of it because the stones are shorter for one thing and also because stone selection really sucked back then and it's still hard to find a place that carries most of the really good stones for a KME.

It's pretty like this with the KME if you use the Gold Series stones they are good for sure but they are still a diamond plate and are going to wear out over time and faster then I would like,also with the stones being shorter that's another problem because you can't get the same stroke as with an edge pro format stone making the task longer as well,also if you were using Chosera stone's to do most of the sharpening they are not the fastest cutting stones at higher grit's and even at lower grit's they are no speed demon when compared to other stones,I use stones like Venev diamonds and Metallic Bonded CBN where they leave more scratch's in the steel and with the Venev the highest grit is 15K and the Metallic Bonded CBN's highest is 8K and I find if you drop back down to a 5K Chosera then it's pretty fast getting the scratch's out because you have refined the scratch pattern to as small as possible and then going to an 8 and 10K Chosera and that's not needed every time so long as you look after the edge and don't roll the edge or chip it.

The other problem could have been that when you sharpened with the KME you did not reset the angle every time to compensate for the difference in stone thickness because that also change's the angle at witch you are sharpening at,I Ron from KME does not care for angle cube's for a reason's but I like them the most important thing to remember is to put the stone holder on the same spot of the blade each time because the angle does change from the heel to the tip.

Please explain in more detail how to use and when to use the digital angle finder with the KME and it's purpose. Does it help with getting the knife clamped in the same spot each time, if not what do you use to remember the exact (or close to) the exact spot you clamped each knife in the KME?

 

[3D Anvil]

Please explain in more detail how to use and when to use the digital angle finder with the KME and it's purpose. Does it help with getting the knife clamped in the same spot each time, if not what do you use to remember the exact (or close to) the exact spot you clamped each knife in the KME?

You know that post is 4 years old, right?

Anyway...the reason you'd use an angle finder on a KME is because the angle markings on the KME (and every other fixed angle system) are just rough estimates. The actual angle depends on the distance the blade projects from the clamp. So, if you want to sharpen at, e.g., precisely 15° per side, you need some way to actually measure that. This is hard to do on a KME for two reasons. One, the stock stone holder isn't magnetic, so you have to hold the cube in place. And two, the sharpening jig wobbles on the base (if you have the base), so it's hard to get a level baseline from which to measure.

Forum member 777 Edge has created some 3D printed accessories which are designed to cure those problems.

Aftermarket Accessories for KME

www.gritomatic.com

 

[Pcexbird]

You know that post is 4 years old, right?

Anyway...the reason you'd use an angle finder on a KME is because the angle markings on the KME (and every other fixed angle system) are just rough estimates. The actual angle depends on the distance the blade projects from the clamp. So, if you want to sharpen at, e.g., precisely 15° per side, you need some way to actually measure that. This is hard to do on a KME for two reasons. One, the stock stone holder isn't magnetic, so you have to hold the cube in place. And two, the sharpening jig wobbles on the base (if you have the base), so it's hard to get a level baseline from which to measure.

Forum member 777 Edge has created some 3D printed accessories which are designed to cure those problems.

Aftermarket Accessories for KME

www.gritomatic.com

Didn't realize it was that old! LOL Well since I just ordered the KME system and the stone holder you linked to is unfortunately out of stock; will the KME perform well as it comes? I did order the stand too.. I've seen a lot of folks get very good results from it. I am no expert. Just starting out. Sharpening my Para 2's and Para 3's mostly and a couple Kershaws and Cold steel folders but as I learn I will be using it on more knives,. I heard to KME is a great system.

 

[3D Anvil]

Didn't realize it was that old! LOL Well since I just ordered the KME system and the stone holder you linked to is unfortunately out of stock; will the KME perform well as it comes? I did order the stand too.. I've seen a lot of folks get very good results from it. I am no expert. Just starting out. Sharpening my Para 2's and Para 3's mostly and a couple Kershaws and Cold steel folders but as I learn I will be using it on more knives,. I heard to KME is a great system.

Sure, it will absolutely do a great job out of the box. You can add on to it later if you want. One piece of advice: do a couple of beater/user knives first to give the diamond plates a chance to break it. They will be a little harsh for the first few knives.

Also, if you're not familiar with diamond plates, *do* use light pressure and let the diamonds do the work. If you use too much pressure you will wear the plates out prematurely. Don't ask me how I know.

 

[scottc3]

necro threads... been there done that-
Pcexbird, Sounds like you got the standard KME $200.00 Kit with 4 diamond stones, plus stand, and not the $160.00 KME R.P.S.H. (Repair-Profile-Sharpen-Hone) kit.
I'm a gearhead, wired to pay attention to details but not OCD, so I do not check angles every time I flip a knife to remove the burr. Leaning heavily on clamping position and angle notes, pics, angle finder App and sharpies to start, my experience led me to mostly just use sharpies now. From memory my use showed system delivers excellent consistent angles within +/- ~1.5 degrees. KME fit my families budget to start and is inexpensive to grow. It has been great as a teaching tool and sharpener, (watch Pete from Cedric and Ada's "KME Sharpener: "1,000 blades later. Mirror Edges for even the uncoordinated"). I liked that the off hand had a handle that kept it safe. The boys left the knife in the clamp and drew a piece of paper across the edge, where no noise meant sharp, and push cut meant very sharp.
* I use KME's stone thickness compensation (~$25 bucks) when changing stone types in a job. I also use stop collars ($5 bucks each) to keep stone from going off edge of knives.
* Follow directions and maybe watch KME youtube on how to clamp knives.
* Never bought an angle cube, just use protractors and angle apps. iPhone comes with a "Level" App in the utilities folder, and there are a bunch of free and 99 cent Apps in both Apple and Droid App stores. I used an iPod for a long time with an angle finder App that had calibration feature, which increased my confidence.
* KME's plated diamond hones are some of the best made, keep a light touch, use a bathroom or postal scale and assume your never going to use more then 2 to five pounds of pressure to remove material, and just the weight of stone and holder to finish-
* So you don't need a stone thickness compensator, just use the exact type of stones start to finish for reprofiling. If you are just touching up the edge to bring it back to sharp and do not want to change bevel angles, use a sharpie to paint the bevel and adjust KME until the paint is scrubbed off, top to apex (edge), while dialing KME to match existing edge geometry use the1500 diamond to erase sharpie.
* Just got version 2 of Gritomatic's KME stone holder (have not used yet), already have and use version 1, and another third 3D built stone holder. This lets me us my Spyderco Sharpmaker's form factor triangle rods: Med, fine and Ultra fine ceramics, and Congress Moldmaker SIC, and Idahone's Coarse and Medium ceramics.
* Maybe you would like my version 1 unit?
* Wicked Edge has a see thru "alignment guide" for 9 bucks, that gave me a clue to make one from simple graph paper printed on a foil (see thru slide) , cut to fit for orienting horizontally, below or above knife in KME clamp. At this point I no longer think me or my son's need this consistent clamping assistance tool, though for a beginner it would be a good 2 dollar bet, by increasing clamping detail for each knife.

 

[Pcexbird]

necro threads... been there done that-
Pcexbird, Sounds like you got the standard KME $200.00 Kit with 4 diamond stones, plus stand, and not the $160.00 KME R.P.S.H. (Repair-Profile-Sharpen-Hone) kit.
I'm a gearhead, wired to pay attention to details but not OCD, so I do not check angles every time I flip a knife to remove the burr. Leaning heavily on clamping position and angle notes, pics, angle finder App and sharpies to start, my experience led me to mostly just use sharpies now. From memory my use showed system delivers excellent consistent angles within +/- ~1.5 degrees. KME fit my families budget to start and is inexpensive to grow. It has been great as a teaching tool and sharpener, (watch Pete from Cedric and Ada's "KME Sharpener: "1,000 blades later. Mirror Edges for even the uncoordinated"). I liked that the off hand had a handle that kept it safe. The boys left the knife in the clamp and drew a piece of paper across the edge, where no noise meant sharp, and push cut meant very sharp.
* I use KME's stone thickness compensation (~$25 bucks) when changing stone types in a job. I also use stop collars ($5 bucks each) to keep stone from going off edge of knives.
* Follow directions and maybe watch KME youtube on how to clamp knives.
* Never bought an angle cube, just use protractors and angle apps. iPhone comes with a "Level" App in the utilities folder, and there are a bunch of free and 99 cent Apps in both Apple and Droid App stores. I used an iPod for a long time with an angle finder App that had calibration feature, which increased my confidence.
* KME's plated diamond hones are some of the best made, keep a light touch, use a bathroom or postal scale and assume your never going to use more then 2 to five pounds of pressure to remove material, and just the weight of stone and holder to finish-
* So you don't need a stone thickness compensator, just use the exact type of stones start to finish for reprofiling. If you are just touching up the edge to bring it back to sharp and do not want to change bevel angles, use a sharpie to paint the bevel and adjust KME until the paint is scrubbed off, top to apex (edge), while dialing KME to match existing edge geometry use the1500 diamond to erase sharpie.
* Just got version 2 of Gritomatic's KME stone holder (have not used yet), already have and use version 1, and another third 3D built stone holder. This lets me us my Spyderco Sharpmaker's form factor triangle rods: Med, fine and Ultra fine ceramics, and Congress Moldmaker SIC, and Idahone's Coarse and Medium ceramics.
* Maybe you would like my version 1 unit?
* Wicked Edge has a see thru "alignment guide" for 9 bucks, that gave me a clue to make one from simple graph paper printed on a foil (see thru slide) , cut to fit for orienting horizontally, below or above knife in KME clamp. At this point I no longer think me or my son's need this consistent clamping assistance tool, though for a beginner it would be a good 2 dollar bet, by increasing clamping detail for each knife.

Yes the $199 kit, full disclosure i am building my cart right now haven't puled trigger yet, not sure whether to get it from knivesshipfree (they have base and system in stock) or buy direct from KME. I was getting through Blade HQ but they charge sales tax here but it's still about $6 cheaper through Blade HQ (but they dont have the base in stock). Would you buy direct from KME? I finally decided on the KME after watching hours of comparison vids. Yes that alignment guide sounds like a fantastic idea for remembering where the blade is clamped I am very green to this so please forgive my inexperience. I wonder if the wicked edge one will work on the KME? Now I will order some stop clamps too to prevent stone from slipping off blade. (I don't want rounded tips heheh) I bewtter add those to my cart how many do i need? These should help rounded tips? If I keep a notebook and or pictures of the knife I'm sharpening in the clamp and when it comes time to resharpen or touch up the same knife should I just use the sharpie trick with the 1500 grit stone used to erase my marking or is it absolutely crucial to have the knife clamped in the exact same spot each time? This is one of the main thing that I was worried about. I would be interested in your generation 1 gritomatic stone holder in time however I am likely to use the KME gold series diamond stones for some while, as I have lots to learn. But I'm sure in time I will expand my horizons and add in some dme plates or similar down the line. I will be checking out the videos you linked when I get home. Also, how do you feel about the kangaroo stropping piece from KME? I have 2 different strop solutions in my cart right now. One is balsa wood with 3 micron syringe of diamond paste and includes 1 micron paste with a leather strop as well so it has two strops and two different compounds. It's $36.99 then I also have a standard leather on wood strop with the green paste which isn't diamond : it's $19.99. Not sure if I should get the first kit with two different strops or just get a standard one price strop with the green "crayon". Or if I should skip both and get the strop that fits the KME, the kangaroo one.
That's cool that the KME kit is so expandable...neat that you'll be able to use your sharpmaker stuff with it too...so many options! When it comes to pressure...should I just use the pressure of the weight of the knife or a bit more when working with the more abrasive grits? A very light touch when using the fiber grits? I read to always get it sharp on the rougher grit stone 140 before moving to the finer stones is this what you recommend as well? I only have a half dozen pocket knives (the main reason I chose the KME to sharpen my ever expanding, yet presently small collection of Spyderco, cold steel folders and a couple case xx knives I got from my grandpa) I have a half dozen chef and paring knives I could use to break in the diamond stones. Mostly henckells and some cheap mercer kitchen knives. Approximately how many knives will I need to use to break in the stones before I can use them on a para 3 or para 3 for example. Your help has been very much appreciated. Thanks very much.

 

[scottc3]

is it absolutely crucial to have the knife clamped in the exact same spot each time? This is one of the main thing that I was worried about.

"absolutely crucial"... yes within reason, use your kit's tools to start to learn systems precision. After practicing on beater/users like 3D Anvil said,
document details of your Spyderco's, Kershaw's, and Cold Steel's
unique primary bevels clamped position (above secondary bevel that creates apex),
use good two handed clamping technique,
use built in angle adjuster, and
built in spring adjustment.
add in assistive tools like sharpies etc.

I have taken thumb studs off on some blades to increase access to edge and not mar thumb studs.

I would be interested in your generation 1 gritomatic stone holder in time

I like your thinking. Let me know, it is not going anywhere. Have not used 2nd rev., so don't know how much better it is, other then what Konstantin published on product page.

how do you feel about the kangaroo stropping piece from kme? I have 2 different strop solutions in my cart right now.

Im an old guy, and as such I would never bother clamping a knife to strop it. start with some old levy's your wearing or levys on some hard wood. You could add rouge, green or white, with or without diamond in rouge. Yes you could use paper and rouge as well as cloth. Use the KME to iron out edges that stropping does not fix.

 

[scottc3]

I read to always get it sharp on the rougher grit stone 140 before moving to the finer stones is this what you recommend as well?

Yes get it as sharp as possible on the 140. Follow Ron's written directions at first. I mean do it the same every time, wooden, exactly, with as little deviation as possible. Directions applied at each stage of sharpening process addresses sharpening principles to eliminate potential problems. At the end, flipping after every swipe with just weight of stone and holder seems excessive, but produces knives sharp enough that you should warn people who handle your knives.

 

[scottc3]

I have a half dozen chef and paring knives I could use to break in the diamond stones.

very good idea-

how many knives will I need to use to break in the stones before I can use them on a para 3 or para 3 for example

I like the number 3... but you will know when your ready. Maybe start with your Kershaw folders first, and then you Case knives if their not peanut size which requires a small knife jaws for your clamp. We have sharpened various scout knives, Victorinox officer of some sort, and a Case Trapperlock with the standard jaws no problem. A fellow BF member recently gifted us a Hen and Rooster small Stockman which will require the small jaws.

 

[scottc3]

Pcexbird, forgot to mention that putting a stone holder hanger to park your stone holder between flips is a great idea. You can make it out of coat hanger, or 3D print it.

KME Guide Rod Catch Plate by dbmeed

Attaches to the KME sharpening system, to catch the guide rod while flipping the knife over in the jaws or changing stones.

www.thingiverse.com

or

KME Sharp Guide Rod Remix by Brandonmh83

Downloaded the original file but made some tweaks that I like made a left and right side for the KME LOGO to be correct or if you have a preference on which side you want the rod to catch, love options. Also made a small lip that catches on the back plate so it cant twist.

www.thingiverse.com