knife attack - how to react?!

"Just give them what they want..... most won't hurt you if you comply."

No offense, but I really can't stand that mentality. :mad: Most probably thought the same thing on the airliners that were hijacked on 9/11; and there are countless situations where robberies went down and the victim was killed out of hand - even after complying with all the criminals' demands.

If someone pulls a weapon on you, assume the worst. I would. I figure that you are about to be killed - no matter how meekly you comply. Use your brain to get out of the situation. If you end up not having to actually fight, then great. But assume you are going to have to. Be wily, attain the upper hand, and end the threat. You have a responsibility to yourself, your family and community to stand up and protect yourself. No... My life is not worth the contents of my wallet, but all bets are off when a weapon is produced.

And never go out the door of your house in "condition white."
 
Hey Raden,

The question is:

If you saw SOMEONE ELSE being attacked by 3 thugs in closed train car- would you intervene?

It would be pretty surprising to the attackers if you just walked up to them while they were busy pummelling the other guy and emptied your pockets.:D
 
Kampfjaeger,

I beg to differ. Appalling as this attitude may appear to you, I still feel it often to be the right approach. In most situations as such one does not have to be a great judge of character to interpret a robber's attitude to some extent, and one might get a pretty clear idea whether it is just the quick cash or some darker purpose that motivates him. In the latter case, indeed, defend and deter immediately to the best of your abilities, but if the former is the case, pulling your knife on three armed blokes is probably going to do more harm than good.

Some will regard this as dodging one's responsibilities, some might call it cowardice. Perhaps it is, for in such a case my instinct of self-preservation would take precedent over my feeling of what would the heroic or honourable thing to do. When I suspect they do not seek my life, I would choose to comply and let police handle the rest.

Funnily enough, the only time I was actually robbed it was in fact the police doing the robbing, and sadly there where three of them, I had but a can of soda and they had AK-47’s. No need to tell you the outcome, I guess…

Christiaan

P.S. I really do not see a comparison between three thugs robbing some guy in a train for some change and a group of armed hijackers taking a plane, but again, might be just me..
 
The attitude of give in goes against the grain to the point of wanting to vomit.

As to helping, taking the targets from behind while occupied in criminal act. Attack with no concern as to the targets immediate or long term health. I call that a freebie.
 
The comparison to 9/11 may be quite on target. Sad as it is we will never know fully what happened that day. For the most part it has been assumed that most people felt it was just a good ol' Hi-jacking and did nothing to stop the scumbags from doing what they were doing...well all but one of the planes that is. That said; if you choose to be a witness, then be a good one, get all the info you can about the BGs and then be there for the victim when the lawyers call on you to testify. Also hope that what is going on in front of you is not on a plane heading for one of your countrys' landmarks. Me I dont think of my self as much of a witness unless I am there to say (Yeah I killed them I was concerned for the life of my fellow citizen and for the other passengers and myself.) Life is precious and if you feel you should take action in a situation that could end the life of another human being; than do so knowing you could be getting the person you are trying to save killed along with others around you; not the least of which is yourself. As far as tactics go every situation is going to be totally different from anything you may have seen in a dojo; mostly because the people you face in a street encounter are not your friends, they will kill the person they are holding and you if given half the chance. There was very good advice try for suprise, and be BRUTAL there can be no better advice then put them down so they stay down and out. Eyes, face, throat. Once thru than back again finish everything you can about them. Most individuals (BGs) who do crimes want an easy target....sadly most of the worlds population are just that. You hear the comments in here alot, sheeple, lambs to the slaughter. They dont fight back because they dont want to be hurt, or they cant be bothered to help their fellow citizens. I dont know, maybe if more of us thought this way criminals would have to work harder to find easy targets or maybe they would just get a job. It all comes down to ease of access. There will always be the BGs who are willing to die for the easy life they have chosen much like suicide bombers they have a mind-set not unlike those who fight for our countries they are willing to die for what they believe. I say live for what you believe and kill those who try and take that which is not theirs.



Of course that is just my opinion.
 
IMO: If you give them what they want you learn a behaviour. The behaviour is to give in. Never fight. Always loose.

That is not the way I would like to live my life.

Your choice, if you´re not going to fight in the first place don´t ask for my help. I´ve got loved ones and friends that appreciate my help if they ever would need it. Anyone of them (man or woman) would probably fight to the end (probably!).

(Don´t know about the original question, too many factors and too little information to be able to make a decision.)

/Colinz
 
Originally posted by Sundsvall
I think it was Sun Tzu who said that "All warfare is based on deception."
Click to expand...

How do you apply it in this situation? About the only deception your going to be able to carry out here is 1)hiding your intent, which has already been covered, and 2)hiding your weapon which I think we all understand as well.

3 to 1 is really tough. Especially if one of your opponents already has a blade in hand. You would have to have the fortitude to strike hard enough to take at least one, if not two, out almost immediately. If you don't even the odds early your going to get stomped or killed. I really liked Dean C.'s suggestion of pulling the emergency cord (if you can reach it). That would give you the opportunity to strike. But, like he said, you'd have to take advantage of it fast.
 
Originally posted by lunumbra
How do you apply it in this situation? About the only deception your going to be able to carry out here is 1)hiding your intent, which has already been covered, and 2)hiding your weapon which I think we all understand as well.

3 to 1 is really tough. Especially if one of your opponents already has a blade in hand. You would have to have the fortitude to strike hard enough to take at least one, if not two, out almost immediately. If you don't even the odds early your going to get stomped or killed. I really liked Dean C.'s suggestion of pulling the emergency cord (if you can reach it). That would give you the opportunity to strike. But, like he said, you'd have to take advantage of it fast.
Click to expand...

Deception is concealing your intent while redirecting anothers attention.

So pulling the cord counts.

Have to train hard, and study human anatomy, physiology and movement to be able to take people out quickly. And you need to have the heart to do it.
 
I get the distinct impression that some people in this (very interesting) debate either refuse or fail to differentiate. The issue at hand was being robbed by armed kids for change, outnumbered 3 to 1. Not hijackers of whom you know they are going to kill you.

Despite the fact that some people feel the need to ‘vomit’ over this, I do feel that deciding the risk is simply not worth the few dollars on you cannot be compared to those brave passengers who intervened. Those same passengers, by the way, did so because they had already been alerted that planes were being flown into landmark buildings. Had they not been, they would have had no knowledge of such an event ever having occurred, ever, and would have undoubtedly decided that the risk to act, especially 30.000 feet above the ground, would be to great. I think this is not too great a claim; I cannot recall a single hijacked airliner either downed or freed by passengers prior to this event. The great sacrifice made by these people was based on an informed decision: there was good reason to believe that not acting would lead to worse.

The guy on the train did not have such a reason. Should he have had one, however, again, attack with all you’ve got. Otherwise, pay the few dollars and live to fight another, and in all probability, nobler fight. Who was it again who said "pick your battles or lose the war"?

Sorry to those I’ve made vomit.

C.
 
Christiaan,

Whether it is a couple of teenagers with knives or guns, or terrorists - it makes no difference. If they threaten me with a weapon, I expect them to use it. I've seen too many instances in which the criminal gets what he wants and then murders the victim - almost as an afterthought. You have to use your head and gauge each situation; and not each one is going to warrant use of deadly force. But my immediate response is not to just "give 'em what they want and they won't hurt me." I figure they might think that things might be better all around if I couldn't identify them in a line-up.

The hijacker correllation is absolutely on target. Prior to 9/11, things were just as Brandon McKinley said: people accepted that the hijackers would commandeer the plane land it in another airfield, make demands, hotages would be released and the terrorists would fly off only to be arrested later. After 9/11 the rules of the game changed. NOBODY thinks that someone attempting to take over the plane is going to do anything short of kill everyone onboard. The criminal element in our country is much more violent than perhaps you may be accustomed to in the Netherlands. I don't know - I've never been to your country.
 
Let's say you give them what you want and they move along leaving you intact. Same group continues this behavior and on a whim kills another victim who attempted to do the same, give in. No reason other than whim or too much chemical brain eradicator that night. Now lets say the victim was someone you care about. This criminal typically graduates or is stopped. We all have choices to make, mine is made and I hope it would be the end of them all.
 
My post on pulling the Emergency Cord and attacking, was in the sence that I was helping the guy getting mugged not as myself getting mugged. I know there would be no way to do that trick with a knife in one of my nostrels.
If you suddenly find a knife being held to your throat you have already screwed up by letting yourself lose situational awareness and alowing the three punks to manuver and close on you. As they entered the car looking for the "victim" I'm sure 99% of the folks riding the car home from works eyes went straight to the floor or to the daily paper. Rather than look at the punks faces and maybe challenging them and sending a body language saying " you don't want to mess with me"
So I'm sure the guy that got mugged put off the sign that said to all in the car "please mug me".
If challenged from the start through body language I'm sure the punks would have kept on walking.
And if this dosen't work and you can clearly see that you are the intended "victim" start acting insane, yell at the top of your lungs "Storm the Bastile" and run around......Just kidding, although it could work, nobody likes to mess with a known crazy. Just ask my wife. :D
 
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