Knife carry as a religious obligation?

Actually, the religion of Scientology is based on the research and writings of L. Ron Hubbard concerning the spiritual nature of man. Not literature, not comic books.
Wolf
 
Silverwing's post on Being Prepared is worth repeating, especially to both women and men of "mainstream" culture who do not carry any sort of knife:

. . . but i do remember my grandmother polishing her knife, and speaking to my very young self quite solemnly about the responsibilities of an adult woman--one of which was, in essence, to Be Prepared. a knife was the symbol of that, altho the knife a woman carried was expected to be a real tool, not a blunt symbol.

Being Prepared, in my tribal context, does not necessarily mean only being prepared to defend one's self, although that is definitely part of it. amongst my people, the women were the carriers of sacred things, both tangible and intangible. thus, it was our job to be sure we could defend those sacred things. women of my people were not expected to wait for the man to step forward! we are warriors, too, after all, in all the senses of that word.

but Being Prepared also meant being ready to perform whatever task might be at hand. we were an agricultural folk, and we also gathered many of the plants and such around our homes for various purposes (our village was about a day and a half's drive from the
nearest town, no electricity, ok). you never knew when you might come upon something useful...so you were expected to Be Prepared.
Click to expand...

That may be part of the traditional religion of her people, but it is also common sense for anybody. Be Prepared. For a dire emergency or just a box that needs opening. Don't depend on being able to look around and find somebody else who has the universal tool.

Now, back to the main topic, with mainly the USA's legal system in mind, but relevant to other places with freedom of religion established in public law . . .

The local ordinances on open knife carry in my neighborhood include an exception for "recognized religious practice." They were probably thinking of the Sikhs.

Never mind where your inspiration comes from - a revelation in a graphic novel, or terribly realistic vision of the Almighty speaking from a burning bush. If it's just you, or you and some close friends or family, you will have a lot less credibility if you want a statute bent to allow your religious practice than you will if you have gathered a congregation with regular organized services, classes to teach your beliefs to the children, and maybe a related faith-based charity.

Likewise, you'll get more consideration in court if the practice in question has long been in the rule books of your organized religion, or even a new ruling by its governing body, rather than being your private interpratation thereof.

The Sikhs have a "recognized religious practice" that involves symbolic daggers. If you menace the Sikhs, individually or collectively, you may find that they know what to do with real weapons too, but the court cases have involved the symbolic weapons rather than real ones.

Another religion that could end up in a court case is Wicca (a.k.a. Witchcraft). There is a double-edged dagger called an athame that is, as I undersand it, used to cut air during ceremonies - as a marker, pointer, and energy director - and never or hardly ever actually cuts anything. I don't know if any schools of the Craft require practitioners to carry an athame in public, and the cutlery-heavy Wiccan wedding that turned into a dirk or dagger case reported in the Net knife forus was won by the defendant, not on religious freedom grounds, but on grounds that the dagger was not in fact concealed.

The courts, in cases like this, typically do a balancing act with the competing interests. In the case of weapons laws, the ostensible public safety purpose of the law, which is on its face religiously neutral, would weigh heavily in favor of upholding the statute and denying a religious exemption. Sikhs have won in various venues over the right to carry a knife that isn't a serious threat. If their governing body decreed that every Sikh in good standing should carry a loaded gun, I would predict that the courts would say no.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
I noticed the above post defending the literature of Scientology as serious and not frivolous, and then I looked farther up and saw a post that did not actually say that literature was equivalent to comic books. Let us not, in this forum, drift off into a debate the merits of anybody's sacred literature. In other forums, I may argue with the holy writ of any number of organized religions, including mine. For our purposes, the key fact about the "graphic novels" referenced at the top of this thread is not their merits or demerits as religious inspiration, but the number of believers so inspired - one, maybe.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
<STRONG>crowinghorse</STRONG> asks:
<BLOCKQUOTE>Do you believe a "religious obligation" would override a state's laws.</BLOCKQUOTE>

In some cases it should and does; in some cases it shouldn't and does; in some cases it should and doesn't.

<STRONG>silverwing</STRONG> writes:
<BLOCKQUOTE>i'm native american</BLOCKQUOTE>

By which, I take it, she actually means that she's an <EM>aboriginal</EM> American, insofar as anyone born in America is a native of America. (Let us not adopt one offensive term in place of another!)

But, in any event, aboriginal Americans should be esepcially aware of the should-but-doesn't cases, insofar as some aboriginal American religions call for the religious use of <EM>peyote</EM>, but the US Supreme Court -- which I'd bet my <EM>liver</EM> would protect the use of <EM>wine</EM> in Christian ceremonies -- has told them "Too bad."

<STRONG>Maskwa</STRONG> writes:
<BLOCKQUOTE>I do not think following a religious code based upon a fictional character would earn you any special legal rights.</BLOCKQUOTE>

<EM>Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!</EM>

[This message has been edited by Athanatos (edited 30 October 1999).]
 
I recognize the truth of what James Mattis has written.
I know the courts would cut me no slack on the basis of individual interpretation and conscience.
Therein lies much of my complaint.

I find some irony in the fact that I have a concealed handgun permit and that it does not apply to my knives.
If I legally wore my Gene Osborn Short Sword outside my overalls on my thigh, it would definitely upset the general public, just as a full size handgun would.
If I put the short sword under my overalls, as I do my handgun out of courtesy for the sensitivities of the general public, I would unnecessarily expose myself to a very high-penalty although remote legal risk.

I guess I don't have a point here except as a sign of the times.
It would actually inconvenience me to carry a short sword, and a small handgun works so much better for my needs.
Still, I find it disturbing that sincere people, such as the Sikhs, cannot practice their religious beliefs without difficulty and compromise.

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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom

 
You would, of course, get more credibility points in court if your holy writ came from the religion, philosophy, or new age section at the book store, and not the fiction, fantasy, or entertainment section. When the author of the literature that you call holy writ had published it as fiction or entertainment, you lose credibility points. In other words, the courts will take a baptized Sikh more seriously than they'll take a Jedi knight.

There's no room here to take on inconsistent use of the language in identifying ethnic groups, or to take on the inconsistent ways that government takes on alcohol and other "controled substances." There was, as I recall, no court test of sacramental wine during Prohibition, because Congress didn't try to outlaw sacramental wine.

The US courts will normally tell a governmental body or an employer to accomodate a bona fide religious practice if that can be done without danger or disruption. It will be harder to persuade a court to create a religious exemption to a state weapons law than to a school district dress code.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
James mentioned that the ACLU has assisted the Sikhs in their efforts to legally exercise their rights.
I wonder what this process looks like.
Does a person purposely break the law and get arrested in order to create a test case?

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Luke 22:36, John 18:6-11, Freedom

 
Or you can accidentally break the law and get arrested. And you and/or your attorney(s) think the law, properly understood, is not what the cops and the prosecutor think it is. Under some circumstances, you can file a civil suit against whatever instutution told you to conform, to make them revise those instructions. To create a test case, you have to try your level best in the trial court, and lose. Then you go up on appeal, and hope you win. A published appellate case is a precedent. Very expensive, even if you don't end up serving time, and you may or may not have an organization with an agenda that overlaps with yours on the issue there to provide a volunteer attorney or pay the tab.

Any appellate cases I know of that involved the right to carry a knife as a religious obligation have involved a knife that had been made fairly useless as a weapon, so the court gave little weight to public safety concerns. The Oregon supreme court legalized switchblades there, but that was a right to keep and bear arms case under the Oregon constitution - a different issue entirely.


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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
Here is a link to the full text of Cheema v. Thompson, a federal appellate decision in 1995 upholding (with a long dissent) the right of Sikh children to carry their kirpans to school, as long as they are in an unready condition. The case is worth reading for the reasoning applied to conflicts betweeen a general law with a public safety purpose and a recognized religious practice.

www.chaicutlery.com/knifelaw/cheema_v_thompson.html



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- JKM
www.chaicutlery.com
AKTI Member # SA00001
 
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