Knife collection in NYC and other states

[glistam]

Hi fellow knuts
I'm taking notes on this discussion for an essay I'm writing. It's supposed to be something in the vein of Concealed Weapon Laws for Dummies. Unlike a lot of other guides, I want it's tone to respectful to police officers. The idea is to deal with some of the finer points of "legality" for non-firearm weapons, namely that there is no real Yes/No answer. Principally, the individual carrying something in public is subject to three judges: The general Public, the Police, and the Law.

Example: It is completely "legal" in most parts of Virginia to openly carry a pistol holstered. However, its not terribly practical. In the case of a bunch of men going to a restaurant a few years back, the staff were scared of them and called the cops. They came, hassled them a bit and left. While no one was arrested, that would get old really fast day to day.

Example 2: How many cops have you heard using the palm-of-hand method to measure knives? Eek!

I'll probably start a new thread at some point asking for help with draft when I've done some more work on it.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

Hi fellow knuts
I'm taking notes on this discussion for an essay I'm writing. It's supposed to be something in the vein of Concealed Weapon Laws for Dummies. Unlike a lot of other guides, I want it's tone to respectful to police officers. The idea is to deal with some of the finer points of "legality" for non-firearm weapons, namely that there is no real Yes/No answer. Principally, the individual carrying something in public is subject to three judges: The general Public, the Police, and the Law.

Example: It is completely "legal" in most parts of Virginia to openly carry a pistol holstered. However, its not terribly practical. In the case of a bunch of men going to a restaurant a few years back, the staff were scared of them and called the cops. They came, hassled them a bit and left. While no one was arrested, that would get old really fast day to day.

they responded to a call, investigated by speaking to the person in question, then left. how is that being hassled?

Example 2: How many cops have you heard using the palm-of-hand method to measure knives? Eek!

none. a few stories here, typically third or fourth party, don't a rule make.

I'll probably start a new thread at some point asking for help with draft when I've done some more work on it.

good luck. ill help if i can.

 

[glistam]

they responded to a call, investigated by speaking to the person in question, then left. how is that being hassled?
...
none. a few stories here, typically third or fourth party, don't a rule make.

Now now, some of these posts have been hating on cops, but that's not my view. I'm not like that and I'm not saying the police were wrong. They were responding to a call (I was using "hassle" subjectively in the view of the men with guns). My point on that one is the public may not always react in the friendliest way if you are carrying some kind of weapon. If lots of people keep calling the police every time you go to a public place, even if your not breaking the law, that's going to waste everybody's time and be a major annoyance.

The "hand measuring" bit is largely circulated among civies, yes I will grant you that. It is not commonplace among police. But a person should be cognizant that it does happen on occasion. Or more to the big picture, that a given officer is not always perfect on their interpretation of weapon law, and that such a thing may result in confiscation or arrest (ala Sorrell v. Mcguigan). However, I must qualify this by saying that prosecution is unlikely if not non-existent in this situation.

And of course the BIG DIRTY SECRET of weapon legality? Anywhere from 95-99% of arrests are people who were committing an obvious crime, like dealing drugs, breaking into houses, robbing people, etc. With the exception of Sorrell, I have yet to find an Court of Appeals case where the defendant did not have some kind of blatant idiocy that initiated the contact in the first place. Even Anderson v. MD (1992) who got off was selling soap as fake crack.

 

[MORIMOTOM]

often times laws are subject to interpretation, by officers, by judges, etc.

they are infrequently black and white. i have gone back and forth with several officers regarding 653 pc, 12020 pc, and 626.10 pc (california). generally they see it my way, since most know im a knife nut type.

for example, ca laws are specific regarding blade length, but dont specify what should be measured. cutting edge? tip to scale? i have seen cases cited where charges were dismissed because the blade length was measured tip to scale, and the cutting edge fell under the legal limit. but this is likely to be the exception rather than the rule. i measure cutting edge, but im sure many measure tip to scale.

but how i interpret the law is not necessarily how everyone will, and that does not always make them wrong.

confiscation of items without arrest is tricky, excepting things like small amounts of marijuana, cigarettes from a minor, etc. i don't recommend officers to this. the result can be at the least a personnel complaint, and at worst a filing for theft against the officer.

the public will absolutely not respond favorably in a situation where open carry is infrequently seen, even if perfectly legal.

in ca it is legal to carry a firearm openly, if unloaded. a coworker responded to a call of this type, and nevertheless, the "suspect" was detained at gunpoint. turns out he was going to an audition for a cowboy part, and decided to wear his rig to the studio, though not the rest of his costume. he was counseled regarding his choices, and even though he had done nothing illegal it was a bad idea.

yes, most weapons charges are either supplemental or the result of an investigation for another violation. at least in my experience.

 

[glistam]

Thank you. I will remember that when I'm working on this.

On an unrelated note, what is CA's length limit anyway? And which statute is that under?

 

[MORIMOTOM]

for autos, though this was recently changed to "over two inches":

653k. Every person who possesses in the passenger's or driver's
area of any motor vehicle in any public place or place open to the
public, carries upon his or her person, and every person who sells,
offers for sale, exposes for sale, loans, transfers, or gives to any
other person a switchblade knife having a blade two or more inches in
length is guilty of a misdemeanor.
For the purposes of this section, "switchblade knife" means a
knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a
spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife or any other
similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more
inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick
of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other
mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by
any type of mechanism whatsoever. "Switchblade knife" does not
include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure
applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to
the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism
that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade,
or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.
For purposes of this section, "passenger's or driver's area" means
that part of a motor vehicle which is designed to carry the driver
and passengers, including any interior compartment or space therein.

regarding knives/weapons on school campuses:

626.10. (a) Any person, except a duly appointed peace officer as
defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of
Part 2, a full-time paid peace officer of another state or the
federal government who is carrying out official duties while in this
state, a person summoned by any officer to assist in making arrests
or preserving the peace while the person is actually engaged in
assisting any officer, or a member of the military forces of this
state or the United States who is engaged in the performance of his
or her duties, who brings or possesses any dirk, dagger, ice pick,
knife having a blade longer than 21/2 inches, folding knife with a
blade that locks into place, a razor with an unguarded blade, a
taser, or a stun gun, as defined in subdivision (a) of Section 244.5,
any instrument that expels a metallic projectile such as a BB or a
pellet, through the force of air pressure, CO2 pressure, or spring
action, or any spot marker gun, upon the grounds of, or within, any
public or private school providing instruction in kindergarten or any
of grades 1 to 12, inclusive, is guilty of a public offense,
punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year,
or by imprisonment in the state prison.

12020 pc has no length restriction.

 

[hydrasmith]

So the result is that more than half of guys in the individual saling section are criminals by the book.

 

[glistam]

So the result is that more than half of guys in the individual saling section are criminals by the book.

No I don't think so. If I read that right, it only proscribes a length limit for balisongs and switchblades in CA, not regular folding knives unless it's on school property. It looks like regular folding knives can be any size.