Knife failure during the NH ice storm

M

Munnin42

Joined
Aug 5, 2008
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I recently just got my power back from the big ice storm that left much of the state without power. A lot of us still don't have power, there are still generators going on my street. But here's my story:

I've got a few fish tanks, a 135gallon that was thankfully empty at the time (just moved the 2 Oscars, Jack Dempsey, and a Convict cichlid down to Virginia), a 75gal and a 30gal. Our family doesn't have a generator so the thing to do in such a situation with fish is to fill soda bottles with hot water to keep the temp in a live-able range. It's harder to keep up than you would think. we stabilized them at 60 after dropping to 55 at night... down from the natural 76*F
To make a long story short, I was outside doing some light battoning to get some nice sized wood to heat water over the fire. I was using an Ontario made Kabar type knife, not the best for the task, but all I had access to. As I seem to be rambling I'll just say the knife snapped under very little abuse. I was not hitting it hard. A simple failure made a task like heating water that much harder.
From now on I think I'll trust my warmth, and my fishes lives for that matter to a RAT RC-6 when I can scrape together the cash.

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_9HhausJcqaY/SUlWBbBJR2I/AAAAAAAAATM/C7IukjKYOxA/s912/DSC_0013.jpg

Oh and after one really close call with a Convict cichlid, they all survived thanks to a small female Convict wafting water over his gills :D it was the first time they had seen each other and I was on the edge of euthanizing him. They are now a pair living alone in the 135gallon tank, attacking the glass when anyone walks into the room.
 
Very early on makers realized that steel is more brittle in cold temps, axes chipped on frozen wood and knives broke in cold weather, the rail roads realized this and remembered that steel must be tempered in balance to the temperatures it would be used in. Many have forgotten, I hope this is a reminder to all that blades need to be developed in harmony with the environment they will be used.
 
MikeJackmin said:
Read this:

http://www.barkriverknives.com/docs/batoning.pdf

Short version: be careful to hold the knife horizontally while batoning - if the handle is allowed to tip down, it can cause unusual stresses at the base of the blade when it is struck by the baton. Even good knives can be broken this way.
Click to expand...



Thanks for this, it was a good read. Good will come out of my loss yet if someone else that hasn't seen that and reads my thread.
 
Also, I would invest in a wedge. I look at batonning as a survival/camping technique, and not something to do as a matter of course (IMO). Since surviving from the house allows for somewhat larger (and more rugged) survival tools, a splitting wedge, and a maul or splitting axe are excellent tools to keep by in case of emergencies. I was in Sears yesterday and gave serious consideration to buying the excellent Fiskars Pro Splitting Axe for $40. Pick up a splitting wedge and you have two excellent survival tools for under 50 bucks. Given the recent ice storms up here in the Northeast, and the unwillingness or inability for the utility companies to keep up with basic tree pruning, its a worthwhile investment. Being closer to the coast and farther south, we dodged the ice, but friends further west got nailed. Lets see what Friday brings!
 
I went 5 days without power, its back now. While splitting wood on about day 3, I got my maul jammed in a knotty log. I started tapping a hatchet as a wedge to free the maul and shattered the hatchet blade. I've had this hatchet for years, but it was a very cold day. All said, I did ok with a woodstove, chainsaw, ax, and various knives. I stayed warm and fed. This storm was definately a test of skills and tools. I did ok, but I learned alot.
 
Glad you made it out okay, I lost my 8" (around there) Jack Dempsey Oscar, most colorful beautiful Oscar I'd ever seen, out of the blue.
 
A cheap hatchet or ax would have served better. The right tool for the job...

No need to spend the bucks on the RAT for splitting wood unless you just want one.
 
Ed Fowler said:
Very early on makers realized that steel is more brittle in cold temps, axes chipped on frozen wood and knives broke in cold weather, the rail roads realized this and remembered that steel must be tempered in balance to the temperatures it would be used in. Many have forgotten, I hope this is a reminder to all that blades need to be developed in harmony with the environment they will be used.
Click to expand...

Good post Ed.

And the picture isn't showing up...
 
Glad you and the fishes made it out ok. Did you try wrapping the tank up for insulation? Some folks on the fish forum recommended that when we were discussing what to do in a power outage situation. Very interesting behavior by your convicts too, wonder if there is anything like that on youtube.
 
Glad to hear they are OK,used to be into the fish thing big.
I have heard of people running a cord from a power converter in a car to power the filters and heaters.You have to start the car every couple hours to recharge the battery.
 
I must have missed when this furious, feverish desire to baton a knife caught on. It seems like every fourth post is about somebody using a knife to baton through something or other. I honestly don't understand this sudden surge in a practice that was at one time considered controversial at best. (This is not a criticism of the original poster, who had a specific situation with which to deal.)

That said, why was this knife the only one to which you had access, if you were home? Wouldn't you have an axe or hatchet at home? (Correct me if I am misinterpreting.)

The orginal poster has said the knife broke "after only a little abuse." Well, that's the key, isn't it? Abuse. If a knife breaks when using it for this, or for prying, or even for, say, digging in stone-filled ground (another task for which it is not designed), it hasn't "failed." Failure implies that the knife stopped doing something it was supposed to do, something for which it was designed.

This knife broke while being misused. That's not "failure."

Soapbox dismounted. I'm glad your fish survived.
 
Any decent fixed blade knife should be able to baton wood all day long, for eternity without breaking. For example, if you purchased a RAT, I guarantee it would not have had any problems (I don't own one, just speaking from reputation).

It is not as efficient as an axe, but we use what we have on hand.

I am no knife expert, but I don't think batoning wood is abusive on a decently thick fixed blade. Some times, even when I have a hatchet and ax handy, I will still baton wood just for fun, but that is a personal thing.

There are techniques you can use to minimize the stress on the knife.
 
Bigfattyt said:
Any decent fixed blade knife should be able to baton wood all day long, for eternity without breaking. For example, if you purchased a RAT, I guarantee it would not have had any problems (I don't own one, just speaking from reputation).

It is not as efficient as an axe, but we use what we have on hand.

I am no knife expert, but I don't think batoning wood is abusive on a decently thick fixed blade. Some times, even when I have a hatchet and ax handy, I will still baton wood just for fun, but that is a personal thing.

There are techniques you can use to minimize the stress on the knife.
Click to expand...

Most fixed blades are not, in fact, designed for that, though of course there are plenty that will. I don't think it's a reasonable expectation, in general, of fixed blades as a category.
 
That "batoning theory" .pdf makes little sense to me.

Whether or not the handle is horizontal, is irrelevant. The force experienced by the tang (provided the handle is held immovably) is determined by the angular acceleration imparted by the blow of the baton, and that is largely determined by how far (very loosely speaking) from the pivot the blow lands. If the blow comes in perpendicular to the spine (no matter the blade orientation) and lands at a point in line with the pivot, the angular acceleration and the force on the tang are negligible.

What I find interesting about this whole topic is that the resisting force of a human hand holding onto a pretty short lever is sufficient to snap the tang on a supposedly tough outdoors knife.

Judging by some knife blank profiles you see from time to time, it seems not every knife maker appreciates the value of radiused corners and thick tangs, opting instead to cripple a design with stress raisers and rat tails.
 
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