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Knife for automobile accidents
- Thread starter Gabe Newell
- Start date
- Joined
- Jun 29, 1999
- Messages
- 9,839
My original Blackjack Campanion lives in the truck for just that eventuality.
Gollnick
Musical Director
- Joined
- Mar 22, 1999
- Messages
- 29,258
Whenever the question of knives in cars comes up, I have to tell my story.
To those of you who've heard it before, I appologize.
Basically, the road turned to the left. There was ice on the road, so I did not. I pulled back on the yoke and tried to get the nose up, but gravity exceeded lift and I went down. Unfortunately, the road in question has no shoulder to speak of and drops a good ten or maybe even 15 feet suddenly. So, the car ended up rolling over... three times.
After it was over with, I found the Benchmade 970 that had been closed and in the arm rest compartment open and stabbed into the back seat.
I learned that the forced in an accident can be extreme. Every compartment in the passenger compartment, the glove box, the arm rest, the ash tray, the map pocket, etc., WILL come open and spill their contents into the air around you.
Even my briefcase, which had been on the back seat, came open and dumped its contents.
I was fortunate that the 970 stabbed into the back seat and not into my body. I was fortuante that I was not hit in the head by the flying GPS receiver. Etc.
My rule is: DO NOT BRING IT INTO THE PASSENGER COMPARTMENT IF YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO GET HIT IN THE HEAD WITH IT! That's what the trunk is for.
If you want to have it in the passenger compartment, you either have to be willing to be hit in the head with it or you have to fasten it down with a real, mechanical fastener. Velco is not good enough. That GPS receiver was held down with Velcro.
Suction cups? Worthless.
It's got to be held down with some sort of durable mechanical fastener.
One of the things I like about my new Mercedes, aside from the 12 airbags and the chilled armrest compartment, is that the arm rest and glove box actually lock with real locks. I don't lock them because I'm paranoid about people breaking in, but because I don't want them opening in an accident. I like the REST button too. Those of you who own Mercedes cars know about the REST button.
To those of you who've heard it before, I appologize.
Basically, the road turned to the left. There was ice on the road, so I did not. I pulled back on the yoke and tried to get the nose up, but gravity exceeded lift and I went down. Unfortunately, the road in question has no shoulder to speak of and drops a good ten or maybe even 15 feet suddenly. So, the car ended up rolling over... three times.
After it was over with, I found the Benchmade 970 that had been closed and in the arm rest compartment open and stabbed into the back seat.
I learned that the forced in an accident can be extreme. Every compartment in the passenger compartment, the glove box, the arm rest, the ash tray, the map pocket, etc., WILL come open and spill their contents into the air around you.
Even my briefcase, which had been on the back seat, came open and dumped its contents.
I was fortunate that the 970 stabbed into the back seat and not into my body. I was fortuante that I was not hit in the head by the flying GPS receiver. Etc.
My rule is: DO NOT BRING IT INTO THE PASSENGER COMPARTMENT IF YOU'RE NOT WILLING TO GET HIT IN THE HEAD WITH IT! That's what the trunk is for.
If you want to have it in the passenger compartment, you either have to be willing to be hit in the head with it or you have to fasten it down with a real, mechanical fastener. Velco is not good enough. That GPS receiver was held down with Velcro.
Suction cups? Worthless.
It's got to be held down with some sort of durable mechanical fastener.
One of the things I like about my new Mercedes, aside from the 12 airbags and the chilled armrest compartment, is that the arm rest and glove box actually lock with real locks. I don't lock them because I'm paranoid about people breaking in, but because I don't want them opening in an accident. I like the REST button too. Those of you who own Mercedes cars know about the REST button.
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2001
- Messages
- 843
That's an excellent point about these safety gadgets having to be mounted firmly to be of any use and you have to be able to find it even if the car is upside down and it is dark.
Aren't jammed seatbelts so rare as to make specialized seatbelt cutters unnecessary?
Aren't jammed seatbelts so rare as to make specialized seatbelt cutters unnecessary?
- Joined
- Jan 21, 2002
- Messages
- 3,834
While the seatbelt may not jam, I like to keep a blade/cutter within reach of my left hand just in case something happens to my right hand and prevents me from disengaging the lock. Also, I would not necessarily be carrying it for myself, it's also in case I run across someone trapped by their belt and possibly unconscious. I may not be able to reach their lock. I talked to the salesclerk at my local gun/knife shop and she mentioned a customer who came in and bought the Benchmade rescue hook because he had lost a friend in an accident. I don't know the details of the accident, but not having something to cut the seatbelt prevented him from helping his friend. I always have a blade on me, but I like to have a backup.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,139
In this particular case, it would have been a lot easier for us to reach the belt and cut it than to reach the buckle. In fact we couldn't have reached the buckle until Louise was out of the car (or the car was moved).
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,139
I was looking at these two Meyerco Rescue knives that I think Boink referenced:
and
and it looks like both are out of stock at Meyerco.
and
and it looks like both are out of stock at Meyerco.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,139
... and just for fun, here's a 17.25" OAL khukri per Rusty's suggestion.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,139
Here's an excerpt from this article:
Looking at Airbag Sensors
The advent of the NHTSA requirement for passive restraint (1987 - 1990 after much legal haggling) demanded automatic belts or one air bag. The 1998 requirement for full frontal air bags (100% compliance) gave impulse to the industry to design a system to discriminate when the air bag should deploy. A bit of trivia: The air bag patent was first awarded in 1953 to an engineer named John Hetrick.
Currently there are various types of sensors to "decide" when the air bag should deploy. The systems are:
Speed-dependent (mechanical, electro-mechanical)
Electrical (micro-machined accelerometers)
Crush-dependent (electro-mechanical)
Each of these systems has adjustments that can be made in the manufacturing process to tune the speed change at which the fire-signal is demanded.
A safeing sensor is a back up sensor that is mounted in the passenger compartment. In a system that uses this methodology, the fire command from the primary sensor(s) goes into a control module that also takes input from the safeing sensor. This safeing sensor is located away from the crush zone. The fire command from the control module will be sent to the igniter in the air bag only when the safeing sensor also detects a collision of sufficient severity.
Typically, mechanical devices are tuned to deploy at a flexible delta V range of 8 mph to 14 mph. If the system can discriminate whether the occupants are restrained, the system may not deploy until a speed change of 16 mph to 18 mph is predicted.
Looking at Airbag Sensors
The advent of the NHTSA requirement for passive restraint (1987 - 1990 after much legal haggling) demanded automatic belts or one air bag. The 1998 requirement for full frontal air bags (100% compliance) gave impulse to the industry to design a system to discriminate when the air bag should deploy. A bit of trivia: The air bag patent was first awarded in 1953 to an engineer named John Hetrick.
Currently there are various types of sensors to "decide" when the air bag should deploy. The systems are:
Speed-dependent (mechanical, electro-mechanical)
Electrical (micro-machined accelerometers)
Crush-dependent (electro-mechanical)
Each of these systems has adjustments that can be made in the manufacturing process to tune the speed change at which the fire-signal is demanded.
A safeing sensor is a back up sensor that is mounted in the passenger compartment. In a system that uses this methodology, the fire command from the primary sensor(s) goes into a control module that also takes input from the safeing sensor. This safeing sensor is located away from the crush zone. The fire command from the control module will be sent to the igniter in the air bag only when the safeing sensor also detects a collision of sufficient severity.
Typically, mechanical devices are tuned to deploy at a flexible delta V range of 8 mph to 14 mph. If the system can discriminate whether the occupants are restrained, the system may not deploy until a speed change of 16 mph to 18 mph is predicted.
Gollnick
Musical Director
- Joined
- Mar 22, 1999
- Messages
- 29,258
Keep in mind that an airbag is a complex system with electronic, mechanical, and chemical components. When the time comes for an airbag to deploy, it's entirely possible that something will go wrong electrically and the bag won't deploy. Even if the electrical works perfectly, it's entirely possible that something will go wrong mechanically and the airbag won't deploy. And even if the electical and the mechanical both work perfectly, it's entirely possible that something will go wrong chemically and the airbag won't deploy.
Keep in mind that an airbag is a single-use only device. There's no way to fully test it and know that it works. Because of the way it's packed to fit into a small space, there's no way to even fully inspect it.
A seatbelt is a very simple thing. You can see it . You can inspect it. You can test it.
Airbags are great and they've proven very reliable. They've saved may lives, no doubt. But, you still should not rely on them. Always wear your seatbelt.
Keep in mind that an airbag is a single-use only device. There's no way to fully test it and know that it works. Because of the way it's packed to fit into a small space, there's no way to even fully inspect it.
A seatbelt is a very simple thing. You can see it . You can inspect it. You can test it.
Airbags are great and they've proven very reliable. They've saved may lives, no doubt. But, you still should not rely on them. Always wear your seatbelt.
Gollnick
Musical Director
- Joined
- Mar 22, 1999
- Messages
- 29,258
BTW, about the best seatbelt cutter I've seen in Benchmade's new Rescue Hook. I've cut actual seatbelt material with one and it's like the proverbial hot knife through butter. And it doesn't do to bad on my "do you want to get hit in the head with it" test either.
Good Evening All-
Chuck, this lil' cutter will fit nicely around your shift knob, emergency brake lever, or rearview mirror. It is therefore virtually always within reach, regardless of your orientation, inside the vehicle following an accident.
I've made it policy to cut NOTHING with my Rescue Hook to ensure that it remains 100% razor-sharp. Because they're such cheap insurance, I've stashed one in my motorcycle leathers watch-pocket in the event I come upon an accident while out riding.
~ Blue Jays ~
Chuck, this lil' cutter will fit nicely around your shift knob, emergency brake lever, or rearview mirror. It is therefore virtually always within reach, regardless of your orientation, inside the vehicle following an accident.
I've made it policy to cut NOTHING with my Rescue Hook to ensure that it remains 100% razor-sharp. Because they're such cheap insurance, I've stashed one in my motorcycle leathers watch-pocket in the event I come upon an accident while out riding.
~ Blue Jays ~
Here is a nice comparison of the Meyerco Rescue 1 and the Smith & Wesson First Response.
The most interesting difference seems to be that the Smith & Wesson glass breaker is spring-loaded, and the Meyerco version is not. The reverse-serration on the S&W is also interesting.
I guess I would buy the MeyerCo knife to carry around with me, and the Smith & Wesson to leave in my car. They're cheap--maybe I'll get both.
The most interesting difference seems to be that the Smith & Wesson glass breaker is spring-loaded, and the Meyerco version is not. The reverse-serration on the S&W is also interesting.
The MeyerCo rescue knives are available elsewhere
I guess I would buy the MeyerCo knife to carry around with me, and the Smith & Wesson to leave in my car. They're cheap--maybe I'll get both.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2003
- Messages
- 1,139
I received a private email from an EMT advocating the benefits of EMT scissors.
"They'll go through seat belts as well as clothes, rope, leather belts, boots, etc. I'm told they'll cut pennies in half, but I've never tried that. Because they don't have points, they're suitable for cutting things that are pressed against someone's skin."
They also gave me URLs to a couple of sites (which I've added above), including an EMT holster intended to hold EMT scissors, a window punch, penlight, forceps, and other tools.
"They'll go through seat belts as well as clothes, rope, leather belts, boots, etc. I'm told they'll cut pennies in half, but I've never tried that. Because they don't have points, they're suitable for cutting things that are pressed against someone's skin."
They also gave me URLs to a couple of sites (which I've added above), including an EMT holster intended to hold EMT scissors, a window punch, penlight, forceps, and other tools.
- Joined
- Sep 16, 2002
- Messages
- 1,801
The problem with EMT scissors is, not all are created equal. I have gone through several pair in my career, and a lot wouldn't cut seatbelt material well. They are fine with thick material, but the seatbelts are made up of thousands of very fine strands, which once frayed by the scissors, are very difficult to cut. They will cut pennies in half, but why do it? It ruins the blades. The BM rescue hook works great for seatbelts and removing clothes from trauma victims.
Regarding airbags, and their delicate electrical sensors, and Gollnick's comment that anything electrical can malfunction, this is very true. It is extremely scary to enter a car to help passengers if the airbag looks like it should have deployed, but didn't. I have seen a very vivid video that shows a fireman leaning over the passenger's lap to take care of them, when the airbag deploys, knocking him unconscious, and giving him a concussion. BTW, on my soapbox a bit, but for those of you who don't wear your seatbelt, or figure they don't need to because they got airbags, you are stupid. I can't tell you how many times I have picked up fatalities in which that person was the only unrestrained person in the vehicle. Airbags are useless without seatbelts. But heck, I guess it's just good job security for guys like me though. Off soapbox now.
Mike
Regarding airbags, and their delicate electrical sensors, and Gollnick's comment that anything electrical can malfunction, this is very true. It is extremely scary to enter a car to help passengers if the airbag looks like it should have deployed, but didn't. I have seen a very vivid video that shows a fireman leaning over the passenger's lap to take care of them, when the airbag deploys, knocking him unconscious, and giving him a concussion. BTW, on my soapbox a bit, but for those of you who don't wear your seatbelt, or figure they don't need to because they got airbags, you are stupid. I can't tell you how many times I have picked up fatalities in which that person was the only unrestrained person in the vehicle. Airbags are useless without seatbelts. But heck, I guess it's just good job security for guys like me though. Off soapbox now.
Mike
- Joined
- Aug 15, 2002
- Messages
- 719
Well, after reading this thread I will procure a glassbreaker for my car.
However the 30 inch crowbar stays!
A very versatile tool that can be. 
However the 30 inch crowbar stays!
A very versatile tool that can be.
- Joined
- Mar 2, 2000
- Messages
- 1,526
Let me see if I got his right.A womans in a high speed roll over and she walks to the gurney? Since there was a gurney present I assume there was an ambulance to go along with it.Yet no collar,backboard or manual stabilization???Where was this?I will make sure I drive extra careful around there.Not only do you have to survive the crash,but also the "treatment" of the first responders.