Knife free rig rant, vol. II

[Chiro75]

Better yet, have your attorney write the letter.

 

[pso]

Will

It is great to see someone who has the guts to put their money where their mouth is, literally.

I would suggest having a hard look at what you have written and see if you can shorten it, keeping only the most important points. Most management types see themselves as "busy" people, and will "turn off their brain" when faced with a long piece to read. You will have much more impact by being concise.

State your primary objective by adding a short second paragraph asking that the knife ban be removed. Allow the (shortened) justification to follow. Ask again at the end that the knife ban be removed. A good way to close is to state something like "Thank you for your attention regarding this matter. I am looking forward to your reply."

Best of luck!

 

[Dan Gray]

Here are some suggestions you might use to offer monetary advantage to knife carry:

Cost of lost time looking for provided cutter
Cost of lost time applying incorrect tool for the cutting job at hand
Cost of treating injuries due to using incorrect tool (give examples how the provided cutter won't be effective and might cause injury) (they are insured for work related injuries on your rig though)
Cost of lost time due to injury caused by using the incorrect tool
Cost of potential for loss of life (example your buddy who drowned) (remember they're insured for this too)

.

add to this too Will
I know some are afraid to speak up against this but if you can get every one of the guys to sign a petition ( i mean everyone)
and tell them you won't submit it unless the majority signsv it.
this way they are more app to sign , knowing it won't be just you and him..and his job.
then it's a crew stand not just a few...
you can add to the list in ( ) as you mentioned,,
disgruntle employs cause Company losses also

like Dave said they need a reason to get off their A$$'s
and it most likely is coming to them from pressure higher up the line..
so it wouldn't hurt to know guys from other rig and have a correlated
say in the matter. and if knives are considered weapons,, we have the right to bear them.
I and many more served to have that right and will not see their lives taken in vane for it..
a weapon is anything used to harm with, a car is a deadly weapon if used as one.
a 2x4, a letter opener, what do inmates get hurt with most, sharpened what ever they can get their hands on.
so it don't have to be a knife..
give me an icicle and I can show you how bad H2O can be for you..
be it used to club you or drive it home and you'll never see finger prints on that weapon

 

[combs6136]

Here in Oxford, Ohio the police cannot carry a knife of any kind....
"According to the Chief they are trained to carry a gun but he won't pay to train them to carry a knife....This info is from one of his senior officers......i couldn't believe it ......You talk about political correctness...I work for the local unversity in maintenance and we can't carry one either, but everyone does.........Also the University Pres. is a custom knife collector....But ins.. companys rule the world it seems........One of these days someone will catch me with some of my custom knives in a bag here on campus and you will read about me in the papers.........Well, i am retiring in jan. anyway...I carry a gun and 2 knives off campus anyway...........Interesting thread........But disappointing.......Sorry to see the way this country is going........carl

 

[Will52100]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll be working on it as time allows.

The petition is an interesting idea, one of the other guys had the idea, but if not pushed it will never go anywhere. The truth is too many are afraid for there jobs, and if I had wife and kids I would be also.

This is going to require a delicate touch, something I'm definatly not used to, my normal problem solving methoud is a ten pound sledge.

 

[peter nap]

Other than make un-knives Will, I haven't gotten into this. Your problem is with the safety management and the insurance people. They are like security people sometimes insomuch as they tend to invent solutions for problems that don't exist.

If it were me, I'd talk to the safety people and try to find the exact reason for the rule and who made the suggestion. These rules aren't just implemented. They require countless hours of discussion and time wasting.

If it is an insurance company mandate. Hang it up.
If it is a safety issue, discuss it with them.

If, as I suspect, it is a security issue disguised as a safety issue, hang it up because corporate America has lost the ability to distinguish between flag waving and trampling on the rights of others.

Good luck!

The insurance companies are a pain unless your company stands firm. Then the insurance people back off....sometimes.

My carrier decided they didn't want any of the employees to carry firearms. My position has always been that it's legal and as long as I don't get complaints from clients and they behave like adults, it's their business.
The rest of the board feels differently but since I have a majority of voting stock. I don't care how they feel.

I told the insurance company I would be changing carriers at the policy anniversary and believe it or not they blinked. They agreed to allow it as long as the employees were not acting as security personnel.

 

[Temper]

Another idea is to list the number to times you use a knife for each day and say why the alternative cutting device is unsuitable for that task.

If time is money and you are screwing around with a POS instead of a real knife it may finally start to sink in once thier bottom line gets effected.

You guys could also go on a go slow and cite the reason is a dedication to an acident free enviroment

 

[Dan Gray]

Thanks for the suggestions guys, I'll be working on it as time allows.

The petition is an interesting idea, one of the other guys had the idea, but if not pushed it will never go anywhere. The truth is too many are afraid for there jobs, and if I had wife and kids I would be also.

This is going to require a delicate touch, something I'm definatly not used to, my normal problem solving methoud is a ten pound sledge.

;like I said Will if all sign it they all won't get caned, just word it as a petition to help themselves if in trouble, it's a la-jit safety concern .
tell a com. fisherman not to carry one after he's seen mates
caught up in nets
and dragged overboard, that boy is on his own for a while if not longer and becoming fish bate...

 

[rjudoka]

Will, good luck, like alot of guys have said, if you can make them believe it's cost effective to keep knives, you've got a chance.
I have spent my whole adult life working in commercial fishing and the merchant marine industry. I can't believe the day has come when you can't carry a fu##^&* pocketknife on an oilrig. Outrageous! :grumpy:

Rick

 

[the possum]

Will, I'd like to offer some suggestions, if it ain't too late. I'm gonna point out the parts I'd personally word differently, but please don't think I'm trying to pick you apart here. I think this is stupid too, and only want to help get the ban shot down. To think I'm sitting in my office right now with a two foot long Bowie knife at my side... I can't imagine a total ban.

For starters, I'd have to agree that it needs to be shortened, somehow. They think they're too busy to read two pages of print, especially if they think they know where you're heading after the first paragraph.

Due to recent events I feel I can not in good consence keep silent and must speak out, though the price be my employment and I do not expect a positive responce.

Whoa there, fella. There's no need to bring up firing in the first paragraph. They'd like to believe they're reasonable people. Reasonable people don't fire good workers for simply disagreeing or stating their point of view in a professional manner. And don't start off by telling them you don't think they'll listen.

I know most people in the office probably do not consider a knife to be an esential tool, however those people are not on the deck doing the physicle work. We had a high ranking supervisior tell us that all he uses his for is to open mail and snuff cans. If I worked in an office all day that's probably all I would use my knife for.

Ummm..., I think I'd omit this altogether. You won't get on their good side by basically calling them all a bunch of pansies who know nothing about operating an oil rig. Besides, there is the off chance that one or two of the people who read this really did work their way up through the ranks and DO know what hard work is about. They will be extreeeeemely pissed by these remarks, and will only turn the others against you. I'm sitting in an office right now, but on an average day in the fields, I'd accomplish more than both of my assistants did today combined. I know if one of my helpers tried talking to me like this, I'd tack their hides up to dry on the wall of the shed.

Nearly everyone that doesn't have an office job are disgusted with the new regulation and are against it.

Again, there's no need to reinforce an "Us vs. Them" mentality. Use some pleasant BS about 'working together as a team' or somesuch instead.

they only work well for one specific task and are inadiquit and dangeriouse for other tasks. They are also bulky and if left in the open position are dangerouse and likely to cause an accident. The simple fact of the matter is that there is no cutting impliment that is as versital or safe as a good knife coupled with the knowlege and skill to use it.

Good! Make the cure sound even worse than the disease! However, you might not want to include the part about knowledge and skill. Then they're thinking of special training on knife use. Everyone uses knives in their home kitchen; keeping the sharpened side away from your precious bits should not be a special skill. Likewise, for the sake of brevity, you may want to parse the paragraph about man's oldest tool- they won't have time for a history lesson.

Instead of banning a needed tool, what about a training course? I am a part time knife maker and would gladly help to teach knife safety. I have probably destroyed in testing more knives than most people ever own in search of increased performance and safety. A knife while a most useful tool, is liken to a hammer or spinner hawks, in that it requires knowlege of safe operation and proper handling and use. A rig based traing course would likely be much less expensive than buying useless "alternative cutting devises", and would likely be a huge moral boster over having to deal with inefective tools that simply don't work.

Again, an additional training course will eventually add up to extra $$$, even if you personally volunteer. Perhaps a simple company memo or flyer/pamplet on safe use? But even this should not be needed any more than a pliers/hammer/screwdriver safety course. Naturally, you want to come across as someone with knowledge on the subject, but you may not want to reveal you're a knifemaker. You want to sound like an average concerned employee; not someone with an agenda or vested interest in the outcome.

Ya know, I just thought of another angle. Is there any way you could find out exactly who cut themselves in the past? And then find out how many other injuries they've had? I get to work with hazardous chemicals, and we've had a number of injuries over the past few years with them. The statistics would show you these chemicals are dangerous. But if you did some research, you'd find out people are dangerous. The same couple of dumbasses kept getting hurt over and over again. One guy who spent the most time in the hospital- I knew that's exactly what would happen the first day I met him, just based on his comments.

 

[Joe Cabaup]

I've been thinking on this for quite some time.

I was trained to be a safety professional. In all of my college courses it was stressed that there is NO unsafe object, just unsafe practices. Guns, knives, explosives, grinders all had to be treated with care. When we looked at a machine or a task, we'd find ways to make it safer by guarding pinch points or providing better operator training or some other way. My college professors (all Certified Safety Professionals with years of Industrial, Chemical or Occupational Safety experience) stressed the importance of training.

<rant>
Somewhere along the line Corporate Amerika decided that training time for "organic machine interfaces" was a waste of time and money. It was easier to ban simple tools and machines in favor of more costly alternatives. Then they wouldn't need the safety professionals, training time and record keeping.

Therefore positions like mine were eliminated and replaced by "safety committees" filled with penny pinchers, brown-nosers and toadies that are totally ignorant of OSHA laws and common sense.

I did a complete and accurate Control of Energy (Lockout/Tagout) program for a company that was individualized for each machine and conformed to OSHA regs. It was discarded for a "snazzy" computer program in which anybody could use. However the designers of the program failed to ensure that the program complied with OSHA regs. In fact, the OSHA inspector looked at the software and knew the company wasn't in compliance right away.
</rant>

Sooner or later, somebody up the corporate ladder will realize that using the correct tool with training is much better than buying an expensive "fool proof" object.

 

[Will52100]

Thanks for all the suggestions guys, the letter I posted is a very rough draft and will be heavily eddited, thanks for the suggestions Possum.

It looks like there may be a way for me to either get a face to face or phone with the CEO also.

There are a few of the alternative devices starting to circulate and they are crap.

We'll see how it goes, though I'm pretty sure it's about time for me to get out of the oil field, I'm tired of corporate treating us like 4 year olds.

 

[ddavelarsen]

I'm pretty sure it's about time for me to get out of the oil field, I'm tired of corporate treating us like 4 year olds.

I really feel for you Will. This whole thing has to be frustrating; it is for me. But I'm sitting here trying to think of someplace you could work where they wouldn't have similar issues. Our nice little comfortable vanilla world is everywhere. I used to work in a natural gas compresser station. Safety was a big issue there too. Over they years they increasingly imposed more and more stopgap type safety measures on workers, until it felt like we were wearing armor to work in. I felt silly.

But here's a story that kind of supports where they're coming from. One day I'd left my safety glasses in my truck or somewhere and was opening a valve. When the indicator light came on it exploded, firing a plug of plastic into my eye. I distinctly remember holding my hand over my eye, thinking I was going to be blind, afraid to take my hand away and see what was in it. I'll never forget that feeling. Fortunately no lasting damage. Guess who got to get up at the next safety meeting and describe his experience?

That's not the same thing at all, I know. Maybe it demonstrates that not all of their thinking comes out of thin air. Like you said, there have been some injuries. And like possum said, I'd bet they are repeat offenders. This might be a good statistic to work into your presentation.

Good luck, we're all behind you.

 

[Dan Gray]

the good thing here is,
good answers comes from many minds put together.
Will I'd
take all the good stuff and get someone with a gift of putting to paper
what they (upper management) will understand.

as to keeping it short,, I don't agree fully. yes and no..

write it out the way you want it all to be answered and label it by paragraph
and put the strong points at the head and a label number for reference if they need more information on the subject of that paragraph.

this way they'll get the up front parts first and if they want to read into it more it will be there for them..it can't be too simple for them,,
because, most upper management know more that you or I, just ask them

in other words write it out in numbered paragraphs
then take out the high points and put them to the top numbered for reference.