Knife Geography

[sqoon]

I've been thinking about this for a while and I figured I would post here to see what you all thought of the topic of Knife Geography.

As we all know, just about every region and culture around the globe has its own style of knife. The Sami and Scandinavian peoples have their characteristic Leuku's and Puukos, Nepal has their Kukri's, Indonesia and the Philippines have their Bolo's, Inuit Ulu's, so on and so forth.

Of course, many styles of knives came about not necessarily for their utility value, but rather for their word of mouth history, such as the Bowie made famous for its role in a grim knife fight. But the fact remains that when you travel the globe, certain places just like their style of knife.

Is this tradition, or do knives of certain designs simply work better in those areas? For example, if you gave a Sami a Bolo, and a Nepalese a Leuku, would they have much use for it? Do some knives simply work better because of the flora and fauna that the people encounter on a daily basis? If that is the case, is it possible to create a knife, or style of knife specific to any region?

When I look at all of the knives on the market for tasks like bushcraft, I think to myself "which bush are we talking about?" I live in Southern California near the San Gabriel Mountains. The area is thick with oak, chaparral, deer, bears, rattlesnakes and small game. If some knives work better for certain areas, how can I really take advice about a knife from someone in Southern Florida, or the Pacific Northwest?

I just thought I'd ask to see if anyone else had any thoughts on the subject, or if anyone knows of research that has been done in this field.

 

[marcinek]

Do some knives simply work better because of the flora and fauna that the people encounter on a daily basis?

Yes. Except you have it backwards. The knives were developed to use on the local flora and fauna. It wasn't like "Hey, this knife I made happens to work great on my local flora and fauna! Ain't that a lucky break!"

 

[sqoon]

Yes. Except you have it backwards. The knives were developed to use on the local flora and fauna. It wasn't like "Hey, this knife I made happens to work great on my local flora and fauna! Ain't that a lucky break!"

Of course. But then that leads me back to my other question regarding if another knife could perhaps do the job better. Some knives may have been developed not only out of necessity, but also bassed on tradition and available materials. If it were only bassed on environment, then knives from other areas, but similar climates and topography might look the same, but they rarely do.

 

[marcinek]

Of course. But then that leads me back to my other question regarding if another knife could perhaps do the job better. Some knives may have been developed not only out of necessity, but also bassed on tradition and available materials. If it were only bassed on environment, then knives from other areas, but similar climates and topography might look the same, but they rarely do.

They don't? I don't see any machetes in the Scandinavian countries.

And in tropical areas, large thin choppers rule. Not identical, obviously, but the same concept built for the same vegetation.

 

[jdboy]

I've never been to South America, where the parang was designed (not for certain), so I can't speak of the vegetation in that region. I can say though that the parang design works great here in the hills of TN.

 

[marcinek]

Panangs are from Malaysia.

But the fact that you assumed it was from South America proves my point.

Similar knives from different places having similar vegetation.

 

[HoosierQ]

I too have pondered this question in this way: Would the mountain men of the early American west have been happy with a Leukku and a Puukko instead iof a Bowie and a Green River or Sheffield? I contend that they would have been.

Can you imagine if the French traders of the early 1700s (or Lewis and Clark for that matter) brought wagon loads of Kukris? All of those paintings of the Native American leaders would have them posing with Kukris instead of tomahawks...which are nothing but the traditional Frankish francesca style throwing ax.

How about a Saxon (way-back machine to about 750AD). What is a Seax or Scramsax but a Bowie knife...or for that matter a Leukku. Some of the existing examples look for all the world like rat-tail tang bowies.

As long as we are talking about steel knives (not bronze or iron or flint), I think that these designs just happen to have been those thought up in a particular region. Sure, a Bowie is gonna fight better than a Leukku or a Puukko, and a Kukri is gonna chop better than a bowie (so too probably a Leukku) but by and large they vary simply because the people of the region think differently rather than a one for one cause and effect of the geography itself on the design.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

They don't? I don't see any machetes in the Scandinavian countries.

And in tropical areas, large thin choppers rule. Not identical, obviously, but the same concept built for the same vegetation.

Billhooks. They're the European equivalent of machetes and are used extensively.

 

[HoosierQ]

Re: Machetes in Scandanavia. The Leukko is sort of their traditional version of the machete. Used with a similar chopping motion. Obviously they are shorter due to the vegetation (or sparsity thereof). A Leukko is just as likely to be used machete-style on some wood or on reindeer bone etc.

So they sort of do have a machete-like tool up there.

 

[Nathan Ihrke]

It is ironic that you brought this up. I am a geography major and almost did my senior paper on the geography of the manufacture of knives. I had a little trouble finding scholarly articles on the topic though.

 

[sqoon]

It is ironic that you brought this up. I am a geography major and almost did my senior paper on the geography of the manufacture of knives. I had a little trouble finding scholarly articles on the topic though.

Ha! I just got my BA in Geography from Cal State Northridge. Glad to see a fellow geographer here.

 

[Nathan Ihrke]

I graduate from Pittsburg State University in Kansas in the Spring. I won't be doing geography work though, off to the Army for me. I'm surprised at how much geography is really catching on as a necessary expertise for so many fields.

 

[marcinek]

Re: Machetes in Scandanavia. The Leukko is sort of their traditional version of the machete. Used with a similar chopping motion. Obviously they are shorter due to the vegetation (or sparsity thereof). A Leukko is just as likely to be used machete-style on some wood or on reindeer bone etc.

So they sort of do have a machete-like tool up there.

A shorter machete really isn't a machete, is it?

That's like calling a machete a long Nessmuk.

But you back up my point. The knife's design is based purely on the local flora and fauna.

 

[HoosierQ]

Well, I didn't call it a machete...'cause it isn't. Machete-like in the sense of a rather large knife for chopping on a swing stroke. While I would imagine that Saami people would be happy to have a nice Collins Legitimus, and would be able to put it to good use, they didn't develop down that route (long flexible blade) due to the type of vegetation up there vs Guatemala.

 

[friedporkchop]

They don't? I don't see any machetes in the Scandinavian countries.

And in tropical areas, large thin choppers rule. Not identical, obviously, but the same concept built for the same vegetation.

nope and i dont see no ulus in the tropics:thumbup:

 

[benajah]

I too have pondered this question in this way: Would the mountain men of the early American west have been happy with a Leukku and a Puukko instead iof a Bowie and a Green River or Sheffield? I contend that they would have been.

Can you imagine if the French traders of the early 1700s (or Lewis and Clark for that matter) brought wagon loads of Kukris? All of those paintings of the Native American leaders would have them posing with Kukris instead of tomahawks...which are nothing but the traditional Frankish francesca style throwing ax.

How about a Saxon (way-back machine to about 750AD). What is a Seax or Scramsax but a Bowie knife...or for that matter a Leukku. Some of the existing examples look for all the world like rat-tail tang bowies.

As long as we are talking about steel knives (not bronze or iron or flint), I think that these designs just happen to have been those thought up in a particular region. Sure, a Bowie is gonna fight better than a Leukku or a Puukko, and a Kukri is gonna chop better than a bowie (so too probably a Leukku) but by and large they vary simply because the people of the region think differently rather than a one for one cause and effect of the geography itself on the design.

One thing about personal knives that often gets ignored is that in a lot of areas, they were expected to double up as a weapon, where in others they were not.
Take the Seax and Leuku for example...The Seax was both a utility knife and a weapon (only nobility could afford swords, the spear was the main weapon of Angles, Saxons, and Vikings), and so has a more effecient stabbing blade that is also thicker..wheras the Leuku is thinner and has a not so efficient stabbing blade as it was not intended to be a weapon.
In early colonial America, the tomahawk or hatchet was the principal cutting weapon, so as far as knives, they could easily be smaller and thinner...later on, like in the old west, larger fighting knives like the Bowie became popular as carrying a hatchet fell out of fashion.
I think a lot of the design of the geography of knives has to do with what roles it is intended to fill beyond being just a utility knife.

 

[CWL]

Billhooks. They're the European equivalent of machetes and are used extensively.

Actually billhooks used to come on 2-handed poles and were used to tame hedgerows, the same ones Sherman tanks had problems with in WWII.

Anyways, knife geometries come from hundreds of years of trial and error. Early man wasn't stupid, and he had plenty of time to think about how to make his hard work easier. If angling a blade, taking-away a point or thinning an edge helped him finish his tasks before sundown, he was going to figure it out.

 

[rwasham]

Of course. But then that leads me back to my other question regarding if another knife could perhaps do the job better. Some knives may have been developed not only out of necessity, but also bassed on tradition and available materials. If it were only bassed on environment, then knives from other areas, but similar climates and topography might look the same, but they rarely do.

This phenomenon most likely has to do with the fact that the making of knives is deeply ingrained in local culture. Not only are knives from specific geographic locations well designed for the flora and fauna of a region, but knife making is deeply embeded in a cultural background. All of these forms of knives have some sort of significance, culturally, that may or may not be consciously realized. Not only are they utilitarian tools but they are manifestations of the people who make them and their own values and beliefs. So while a bolo machete might be used in one region we might see a kukuri, or ,many different kukuri, being used in another. These different forms of knives help contribute to various people's Identities. This is in part why we see various different kukuri. They may be useful for different things, but they also serve as identifying markers for different villages and peoples throughout the himalayas. On a wider world scale the same can be said for all knives and in general anything of human construction.

This would be similar to why we all seem to make music but it's all different. Different cultures will emphasizes different details they see more relevant and important.


Anywho, Without all this cultural diversity we wouldn't have quite so many kick ass knives!
Sorry for the dork out on culture, and thanks for bearing with me.
rwasham

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

Actually billhooks used to come on 2-handed poles and were used to tame hedgerows, the same ones Sherman tanks had problems with in WWII.

Those are known as "slashers." They still make them today.

Billhooks themselves are typically of the single-handed variety, though some versions of the Yorkshire pattern are found with a double-handed shaft halfway between the length of a standard billhook and a slasher. Billhooks are sometimes also known as a fascine knife.

During the early medieval period, billhooks were re-hafted as pole-arms for battlefield usage and evolved into both the halberd (mostly hacking, but can thrust) and glaive (mostly thrusting, but can hack).

 

[link2derek]

Is prison considered a geographical location?

Spoon knife:

Toothbrush knife: