Knife making as a primary income

bodog

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Are there many guys that are able to live off the income of making knives alone? Leave out the big names who are the anomalies.

Just buying the equipment and some basic materials to get some sellable knives produced has me working more overtime than I normally would. If I didn't have my actual job to fund these purchases I'd be on the sideline judging other people's work instead of trying to work my own.

There's no way I could get a business loan to buy what I'd need. If people actually live off knife making alone, how do they do it? How did they get off the ground?

It seems like a lot of the successful guys started off in fabrication and straight up blacksmithing and had a lot of equipment from those jobs prior to getting into bladesmithing alone.

How does a guy with little to no equipment get going? There's only so much I can do with a shitty grinder and drill press and basic hand tools collected over the years.

Right now my plan is to use quality finished blades, practice and get good making handles, start making a little profit from that, buy a grinder, start venturing into simple steels mixed with the high end blades produced by someone else, get into making some sheaths, and then go from there and maybe get some midtech type stuff going. Once that's in place then I can maybe get some mass production stuff going and then maybe, just maybe, in 20 years be able to live off of making knives only.

Is that unrealistic?
 
As long as your goals are realistic, which they seem to be! Start slow, don't go into debt, realize it's not going to happen over night =) Just my .02

Below is one of the best posts I have seen on the topic... 'stolen' from "The Counts Standard Reply to new Knifemakers" :D

S. Sibert said:
17+ years of making knives 9 years of being full time, this is my humble perspective and insight.

1. Knifemaking has real health risks. Grinding steel, manmade and natural handle materials adhered with exotic epoxies creates nasty particulates. Even with great dust collecting set ups and living in your respirator, inhalation is unavoidable over long term. Many things that knifemakers use/grind also get absorbed through the skin also like acetone, chromium, aluminum, ect….. I think I have a developed a allergic response to G-10 after all these years.

2. Taxes. Being self-employed/ business owner means you pay your taxes out of pocket via estimated quarterlies, you get to write a nice fat check to Uncle Sam. 4 times a year $$$$. If you actually happen to make any sort of slim profit over the estimated tax for that year, be prepared to pay more on top of what you all ready paid. Good luck getting refunds. Many people run under the table, and many friends and fellow makers are always ready and eager to give you tax "advice". But if you don’t want a letter or a knock at the door down the road from the IRS, and end up like Wesley Snipes, I suggest investing in a solid CPA and be ready to a take a bruising. Audits are stomach churning. Keep it honest, as this is truly the best policy, you don’t want it to come back and bite you in the ass years down the line.

3. Health insurance. Absolutely vital. You will have to purchase your own health insurance, $$$. Or if your fortunate enough to have a spouse that can add you to their plan is the best.

4. Injury. If you suffer an injury or illness that prevents you from working even a few days then your screwed as there is no one there to take up the slack or make knives for you to fall back on. That means no motorcycles, no bicycles, no ice skating, generally no risky or irresponsible behavior to put your flow of production in jeopardy. Bottom line, no output of product means no income.

5. Divorce. Many people suffer a divorce, which in general is not really ever planned. if that happens, any life line to that person that you need to stay afloat in knifemaking is severed, meaning no more additional income or health insurance, possible child support and alimony that you may have to pay out and loss property/house/shop and therefore if your knifemaking business if not self sufficient it will be difficult to be able to recover from that blow. Being a knifemaker and self-employed can strain relationships and your spouse/partner has to be understanding and behind you and have a plan. I lost my marriage over knifemaking.

6. Income. In general, income from knifemaking is spotty and unreliable. Most of society is so conditioned to get a paycheck every week or 2 on the nose. Being self-employed just throw that concept out the window. There may be weeks to months where you have nothing monetary coming in as you prepare knives to get done, waiting on steel, waiting on sheaths, waiting on payment from customers, machinery breakdowns long list of hiccups that interrupt money flow constantly. As we all know knifemaking requires much time and effort even when you already have established skills and products to peddle. That is why one of the goals/grails of individual knifemakers is to strive for consistency in income. Being the only wage earner in a family will be tough.

7. Hobbies that become your job. You will need to live, eat and breath your work to succeed for years. 24/7. Your hobby now is a career and new rules now apply. You just can’t make knives when you feel like it for a few hours every other weekend now you must make knives everyday to keep product rolling, to feed your kids and keep the bills paid. Now it is work. Playtime is over.

8. Sustainability. For any business to succeed you need hard absolute long term goals and direction. Without out a clear direction, ambition, drive, forethought, tenacity, perseverance, lack of consistency in quality your business could wobble. Constantly improving your skills over time, having consistent quality and craftsmanship, being innovative, getting publicity and exhibiting good customer relations will help you become successful while building a solid customer base may take years to achieve. Building a customer base is vital to having long term sustainability and longevity in this business.

9. Motivation. A big enemy of knifemakers. Linked to the dreaded “burnout” Self-employed also means being self-motivated for year after year, is a key to success. Distractions for self-employed people are the bane of the concept. Sacrifice and self discipline are crucial. You have to treat it like a job and a business and set yourself in a schedule and pattern and to eliminate distractions that may pull you from working, like Video games, family, yard work, gym, computers ect….

10. Product. Making knives people actually want to buy.

11. Dirty. Knifemaking is dirty, dingy work. Does your shop have heat or air conditioning? Summers and winters can be harsh with no climate control. Most only see the end result of our hard work, a cool and beautiful knife. The actual making of the knife is not so glamorous and is rather boring and beats the crap out of your hands and back.

12. Alone. Long hours of working alone with no adulations and listings to the radio, so if you’re a social butterfly this may be hard and also distracting (see motivation)

13. Dependants. Do you have a family that depends on your income to stay afloat? If so, this will be a challenge.

14. Frugal. Tighten the belt and learn to like Top Ramen…every day. Let’s see do I need to order grinding belts, steel, Micarta to make product to sell or do I need to buy a family member a new pair of shoes for school or pay that speeding ticket or pay the county/state business licensing fee or make a health plan payment?

15. Debt. Best to go into self-employment debt free or there is a extremely high chance to becoming overwhelmed with bills and responsibly quickly as knifemaking supplies add up fast and the house payment or property taxes are magically due all at the same time. This is just supplies not to include trying to set up a shop with initial cost out of pocket.

16. Unemployment. Generally, self-employed business owners are considered “unemployed” and because of that we have little or no back-up in case of emergency. So, unlike our counterparts in the job market of employers & employees/companies, if we can’t work for some reason, there is no getting unemployment checks for 6 month or a year while we look for another job. . Being a fulltime knifemaker is a sink or swim proposition self reliant on your own determination to make it a success.

17. Jack of all Trades. Knifemaking is more than just actually making knives, you have to figure out how to run a business, how to make money, how to ship and receive, how to deal with the IRs, how to have good customer relations, how to fix things, know the basics of computers, marketing, phone skills, designing and drafting, CAD work, basic machining skills, planning and juggling various non-knifemaking tasks at once is a learning curve that must be factored in.

18. Lawyer. Wise to have available legal representation and funds for it. What happens if that knife you named the “Undertaker” on a macho whim is actually is used in a crime/defense by someone and now your being called into court to explain to the court why you named it with such aggressive name?

19. Insurance. Do you have business insurance on top of all the other insurance that your currently carry?

20. Retirement. Being a fulltime maker and self-employed now it is your responsibility to contribute to your own retirement fund/IRA since no one else/employer is doing it for you. Is that something you can do on a regular basis along with al the other financial responsibilities? Otherwise, there won’t be much to receive once you want to retire. I have pretty come to peace with the fact that I’ll be grinding until the end.

21. Vacation……LOL! What is that?

Hope this helps not to discourage, but to give an outline of what is ahead and to think and prepare for. Take it seriously, buckle down for the long haul and it can be done.

Nose to the grindstone.
 
Looking forward to some interesting discussions in this thread. I've been making knives for 12+ years. Mostly custom work, original, one off type stuff. For me it's largely a self funding hobby and I've built my "shop" from money made selling knives. There is no way I could see replacing my day job income anytime soon.

I've been giving the business side of things some hard thought lately.. I find myself struggling with the idea of making what I am passionate about vs. making what is hot in the market. I think if you are going to build a successful business you will need to establish customer base and be prepared to adapt as the market demand changes along with all that has been posted already. You must be able to identify where the demand is and produce a product that satisfies the demand requirements all while keeping costs and the financial side in check. Internet marketing and social media are pretty much mandatory these days. Competition is tough.. There are a lot of good knifemakers out there and the available tools/tech are helping to shorten the learning curve for many new knifemakers.

I had a table next to Dawson knives last weekend at Knife Expo.. They seem to be executing on a well defined business plan. They are producing consistent and quality products at a reasonable price point.. They just opened a storefront as well.. You might take a look at what they have done.

I'm going to shut up now and hope the successful chime in :D
 
Finding a market for your knives is what will keep you in business. Those that do that can make some money, the rest of us are starving artists.
 
Finding a market for your knives is what will keep you in business. Those that do that can make some money, the rest of us are starving artists.
That is true in any creative production line.
Looking forward to some interesting discussions in this thread. I've been making knives for 12+ years. Mostly custom work, original, one off type stuff. For me it's largely a self funding hobby and I've built my "shop" from money made selling knives. There is no way I could see replacing my day job income anytime soon.

I've been giving the business side of things some hard thought lately.. I find myself struggling with the idea of making what I am passionate about vs. making what is hot in the market. I think if you are going to build a successful business you will need to establish customer base and be prepared to adapt as the market demand changes along with all that has been posted already. You must be able to identify where the demand is and produce a product that satisfies the demand requirements all while keeping costs and the financial side in check. Internet marketing and social media are pretty much mandatory these days. Competition is tough.. There are a lot of good knifemakers out there and the available tools/tech are helping to shorten the learning curve for many new knifemakers.

I had a table next to Dawson knives last weekend at Knife Expo.. They seem to be executing on a well defined business plan. They are producing consistent and quality products at a reasonable price point.. They just opened a storefront as well.. You might take a look at what they have done.

I'm going to shut up now and hope the successful chime in :D
 
Many years ago (40 ish) I read something that Wayne Goddard wrote. That was if he knew what he knew
at present he would'nt be making knives today. Since then I filled a shop with every imaginable tool, went
thru a lifetime of full time jobs (plus knifemaking) and more recently retired. With today's market would
I do it over? In a heartbeat. Oh yeah I started by putting handles on finished blades.
Ken.
 
One thing that helps immensely is cutting your living expenses down. The cheaper you can live, the more options you have. There's a TON of ways to save money on day-to-day stuff. My fiancee coupons, shops at thrift shops(for both of us), and we don't have kids. I drive a crappy car but it runs and I don't have a car payment.
 
A lot of guys who go full time also have spouses with full times jobs, health insurance, etc... and/or have their homes and shops pretty well paid off, or have a very low mortgage/rent payment. Many also have years, if not decades of getting their names out there, goings to shows (and more shows) and making a name. You've definitely got to know how to hustle.
 
bob loveless got a loan for equipment, i would not consider it impossible. but its probably more difficult now ! but if you take a bunch of money and open a shop and do not become popular you risk it as a loss. i started lightly, putting new handles on old knives i bought at the flea market. people actually wanted to buy them, so i started buying pre made blades and charging a little more. eventually i started making my own crappy blades on a 4x36. people still bought them so later on i bought a kmg grinder. i think you are on the right track. go into it gradually. good luck :)
 
I think the saying goes: If you want to make a million dollars making knives, start with 2 million and stop when you've spent half. :D
 
I was going to start making knives when I retired but decided to start a few years prior to retirement. Hopefully my equipment will be paid for (what I have and what I would still like to get) by the time I retire and then it will be for fun and a few dollars on the side.
 
I think it was Jerry Rados who said "Knifemaking is a lifetime of buying tools, and then you die." Some folks manage to make it work full time, but I'd certainly hesitate to try it without a very low debt load and a spouse with a job that comes with insurance.
 
You can do a lot with simple tools. I've made over a hundred knives with files, an angle grinder, a drill press and a 4X36 belt sander. Yes, you will probably want much better tools if you're trying to make a living. As a hobby, when time isn't money then the basic tools are great. I'd suggest that you start with the basic tools and go from there.
 
A lot of guys who go full time also have spouses with full times jobs, health insurance, etc... and/or have their homes and shops pretty well paid off, or have a very low mortgage/rent payment. Many also have years, if not decades of getting their names out there, goings to shows (and more shows) and making a name. You've definitely got to know how to hustle.

This is it.


Search for these threads.
there is lots of discussion


especially search for Ed Caffrey's posts
It's verbatim what KTAG said

Build tools, skills and reputation and marry a thrifty woman with a good salary and great medical benefits while you have a real job
Have no debt


Plus
None of them are making a living of just knife sales

They sell
hammers, broaches, grinder accessories, and other knife-making tools, do classes and teaching, videos and books



They live cheap.
 
I started building drums (rock and roll type) as a hobby. It was fun and cool and I enjoyed it. Then a few people wanted me to make them custom drums. Did that...but was paying myself peanuts per hour but I felt like I was covering my drum building costs through selling some. Thing was it eventually became a chore. Gotta make deadlines, deal with issues, and I wasn't having fun. I had begun to loath something that I had loved. I Dumped selling them and went back to a hobby for myself and the odd friend. Way happier.

In the ensuing years I began making Native American Flutes and the same pressure to sell some started up but I have resisted it. I just build them for fun.
I am at the point of putting handles on knives now. I want to build a 2x72 and make some on my own, but I won't be going into this as a money maker either. I want to enjoy having the option of building drums, flutes, and knives on my own time line.
The closest I can see myself coming to being a seller is if I get so many of one item that I might sell some of the ones I'm not using. Right now I have 2 drum kits, 5 snares and 9 flutes:D:D . My wife would like me to pare it down to 1 kit, 2 snares, and 4 flutes. She figures that way we could use the spare bedroom for company.

Randy
 
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