Knife making as a primary income

Another suggestion is to never take large deposits/ pre payments to try to cash flow the business. I have seen makers try to do this and it never appears to work. You will always get behind, or have a customer unhappy but the problem is that you already took and spend their money. It basically turns into a ponzi scheme where you need new orders to pay your current bills but you are still behind trying to fill orders you were paid months (or more) ago.
 
Jason Fry said:
I think it was Jerry Rados who said "Knifemaking is a lifetime of buying tools, and then you die." Some folks manage to make it work full time, but I'd certainly hesitate to try it without a very low debt load and a spouse with a job that comes with insurance.
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I'm in my 20th year and its been quite the ride. I have been full time for most of it. And I am fortunate to have married a beautiful lady five years ago that have a job with health benefits and a retirement pension which we will put to good use!;)

kdogmcg said:
i'll have the cleanest grinds in the nursing home
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LOL:thumbup:

AF said:
You can do a lot with simple tools. I've made over a hundred knives with files, an angle grinder, a drill press and a 4X36 belt sander. Yes, you will probably want much better tools if you're trying to make a living. As a hobby, when time isn't money then the basic tools are great. I'd suggest that you start with the basic tools and go from there.
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I also started with Files and reading the book, Custom Knife Making, by Tim Mccreight.

I was at an open door Saturday at the Late Bob Loveless's shop for a few in Riverside back in 98.

Sell each knife for enough to make three more, Then each knife I sold, One third went to Groceries, rent etc.. one to more supplies and one went into a coffee can for new Machinery,

I bought a Sears Crapsmans 2 x 42" Until I had saved enough to get a real 2 x 72, I bought the Coote 10" www.cootebeltgrinder.com and made it Adjustable speed.

In two years I had saved enough to buy a Hardcore Products 2 x 72" I still have the coote, I mounted it with a variable speed set up on a Dolly cart and I can work on the tailgate of my truck for sharpening and light knife making.

Sharpening helps in the slow times n knife sales, I teach from time to time, but after having Bob Loveless, and many others share their knowlegle so freely with me. I really enjoy passing it on for free.

You can count the knife makers/designers that have made the big bucks on one hand. I make a comfortable living and enjoy my crafts!:)
 
Jason Fry said:
I think it was Jerry Rados who said "Knifemaking is a lifetime of buying tools, and then you die." Some folks manage to make it work full time, but I'd certainly hesitate to try it without a very low debt load and a spouse with a job that comes with insurance.
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My dad and I both love tools, and a joke we here a lot when we meet other tool nuts is that the guy who wins is the on who dies with the most tools.
 
I started with just a dremel & a dream:-) Seriously though, I took on small jobs on the side one at a time. Used the money I made form each job to buy more tools/materials/etc. After about a year I had a decent setup, and developed my basic skills during that time too. I kind of consider it a paid apprenticeship. These days I get to make some of my own blades and still do mod work for others. Im a long way from being a full time maker....but Im not pushing for that either. As others have mentioned my 9-5 pays the main bills & insurance....the way I look at it is that Im in for the long game. Down the road I can consider part time work & part time knifemaking and when retirement comes I have a nice way to subsidize my income.

Best of luck to you.
 
I make knives full time and its a hard life. No regular wage and a lot of expenses and bills. One of the best money saving things I did is to make my own belt grinder that can take different length belts. I can buy belts cheap off ebay because they are an odd size, even some good brands like Klinspor and Hermes can be had for under $1 a belt, sometimes less than 50c per belt.

Being in Britain there is no worry about health insurance so that is one less expense. Thankfully, I have never suffered an injury serious enough to stop me making knives.
 
I'm a full-time maker, but it is only functional in the sense that I don't have any travel expenses and I'm also the stay-at-home parent, thereby saving the family childcare expenses.

The way I got here was by building the business VERY slowly and organically. I started with a few thousand dollars. Years 1-2, I was putting $30 per week from my day job, plus all business revenue, into the business. Years 3-4 I was putting all revenue into the business. Years 5-6 I was finally making a small profit. I went full time in year 7. The income is very feast-or-famine, and I need to treat money like a squirrel treats acorns to make it from month to month.

The same frugal living concepts that one might use in personal life must be used in this type of business. #1, live within your means. #2, if you can can spend some time to save some money, and doing so is a logical choice, then do so. For me, this meant learning how to do my own taxes and bookkeeping in addition to tool building and whatnot. #3, be tough, and make tough choices. Be realistic and keep your emotions out of business decisions. Don't respond emotionally to bad news. Keep your chin up and work hard.
 
I'm six months into full time, and the lights haven't gone off yet. It's do-able because I don't have a family, work from home with fairly low rent, and can usually dig up fall-back work if things get slow.

I mostly wanted to answer the part of your question about equipment and getting started. I'm convinced that a big part of being a good craftsman is figuring out how to work with what is available. I made way more knives than most would tolerate on a 1x30, then built my own 2x72 for less than $500. I have a small chinese drill press ($0), a 4x36 ($150), and a harbor freight angle grinder ($0). Those 4 tools do the bulk of the work, and I can output roughly one finished knife a day. Would two KMGs, a surface grinder, a horizontal belt grinder, etc be nice? Sure, but that is many thousand dollars, and I'm not convinced my final product would be any different.

So my advice would be to not go into debt to get set up, you can do a a lot with a little. The product has far more to do with the maker than the equipment. I wouldn't worry about trying to sell you early knives, they might be worth a few bucks to someone, but I think your time is better spent working in your shop than trying to make sales. Test the crap out of your early stuff, put it in the dishwasher, leave it outside for a week, baton wood with it, etc and find out your weak points so you don't do a bunch of warranty work later. When you run out of family members to give fits to, start trying to sell. Just my two cents, enjoy and good luck!
 
pwheeler said:
I'm six months into full time, and the lights haven't gone off yet. It's do-able because I don't have a family, work from home with fairly low rent, and can usually dig up fall-back work if things get slow.

I mostly wanted to answer the part of your question about equipment and getting started. I'm convinced that a big part of being a good craftsman is figuring out how to work with what is available. I made way more knives than most would tolerate on a 1x30, then built my own 2x72 for less than $500. I have a small chinese drill press ($0), a 4x36 ($150), and a harbor freight angle grinder ($0). Those 4 tools do the bulk of the work, and I can output roughly one finished knife a day. Would two KMGs, a surface grinder, a horizontal belt grinder, etc be nice? Sure, but that is many thousand dollars, and I'm not convinced my final product would be any different.

So my advice would be to not go into debt to get set up, you can do a a lot with a little. The product has far more to do with the maker than the equipment. I wouldn't worry about trying to sell you early knives, they might be worth a few bucks to someone, but I think your time is better spent working in your shop than trying to make sales. Test the crap out of your early stuff, put it in the dishwasher, leave it outside for a week, baton wood with it, etc and find out your weak points so you don't do a bunch of warranty work later. When you run out of family members to give fits to, start trying to sell. Just my two cents, enjoy and good luck!
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Lol, great advice.
 
I know a couple guys that make full time and it's a struggle man.

When I started I didn't even have a drill press, I started planning my shop and equipment and it quickly reached over $15k. The one thing about making knives is that it involves so many disciplines and you always need new tools and equipment, there are just things you can't go halfway with. For example, the cost of the mill isn't just the mill, it's the clamps, testing equipment, endmills/drills, coolant, collets etc that end up costing more than the mill. Same with your grinder and belts.

I thought I would just buy this stuff and make knives then reality hit where I spend half my time maintaining my shop. I get $2k+ per knife, more than half of that money goes right back into buying consumables for the shop and upgrading machinery.

I am fortunate that I have a pretty great career and this is just a hobby for me, even with my high prices I don't think I could do this full time.

The biggest concern is what others have said about the health issues, making knives takes a serious toll on your health and time away from your family.

I hear guys that don't make knives talk about how easy it would be to make a knife... I just laugh because making a good knife is very difficult, especially a knife that commands high dollar.
 
I was self employed for 40 years in the crane and rigging business. One of the many things I learned about working for yourself is you get all the hours you want and all the ones you don't. And I'd do it again.
 
I will now add the one biggest requirement -


Be happily married to a woman with a good job, a good retirement plan, and full family insurance benefits.
 It is absolutely imperative that you keep this woman happy!

Other important things are:
1) Having your house paid for. You most likely will need a building/shop in a district that is zoned for commerce and light industry, as well.
2) Getting all your ducks in a row up front - business plan, business license, state/local taxes, resale permits, inspections, insurance, etc.
3) Being very healthy, and staying that way. Remember that if you are sick all production stops ... which means all income stops.
Quit smoking. It is bad for you ( see above), and not a good selling point to potential customers. No one likes to receive a knife that smells like cigarette smoke. Many customers will pass on from a table where the seller smells of smoke.
 
In the last six years of making knives full time I have made less than a quarter in gross sales than the gardeners who mow my lawn and they don't work weekends or nasty days. Some of you might suggest that I am a poor salesperson but I have always sold 100% of what I have offered. If you want to make money then sell your grinder and equipment and buy a used pump truck and pump septic tanks. I can almost guarantee you will make a good living. That being said, I cannot stop making knives because I love doing it. Larry
 
Shing said:
I make knives full time and its a hard life. No regular wage and a lot of expenses and bills. One of the best money saving things I did is to make my own belt grinder that can take different length belts. I can buy belts cheap off ebay because they are an odd size, even some good brands like Klinspor and Hermes can be had for under $1 a belt, sometimes less than 50c per belt.

Being in Britain there is no worry about health insurance so that is one less expense. Thankfully, I have never suffered an injury serious enough to stop me making knives.
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I don't want to hijack this thread, but I am interested in your belt grinder. What sort of range of length can your grinder handle? Is there a picture of it posted here? I am planning to make a grinder this summer and am looking at different designs.
 
I'd say you have a better chance starting a small knife manufacturing business with people working for you than trying to make a living as an individual person making knives and selling them. If you want to support yourself that is...

You will need the tools to do the job too, and the knowledge to decide which tools and machines to buy and which services to outsource. Make sure you actually know what you are going to make and how you are going to be making your products.

If you need a business loan to start a business, try and get one. Be sure to work with financial professionals to set that company up to limit your personal liability and make sure your business plan is solid and realistic. Interest rates are very low. Try and find a partner who knows how to run a business, most knifemakers (myself included here!) are not great business people. I had to learn the hard way that selling products at a loss is crap.

If you are unsure where your strengths are -- knife design, knife making, manufacturing technology or business management -- you might want to step back and think the whole thing over some more.
 
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