knife making as art

I once made the mistake of entering two pieces at an "ART" show in Killeen Tx, You know, the Macho State. One was an integral dagger, inlayed with 18k yellow gold and platinum. along with two flush mount 1/4 ct. diamonds. I entered this one in metal working- sculpting. The other a small sterling sil. chain holding a small a 3 in. 18k white gold sword with, yellow.gold twist wire for the grip. This in Jewlery, They switched the entries and I won both catagories. Both trophy and money. The next week when arriveng to pick up the winners checks, I was informed that I had been disqualified, as my entries were, weapons and certainly, Not Art. If I ever stoop low enough to enter again, I'll enter either a Quilt, or a little wooden push duck, with little rubber flappy feet. Make Knives for a living. How dare we. 'GOT TO LOVE IT' Thanks Guys M. Lovett
 
Oh Man, I don't know whether to laugh or to cry or to kick the dog! :rolleyes: I guess those judges hadn't heard of Marie Zimmerman.

Pat the ad in question is for instruction at Ed's shop. Says something to the effect, would you reply to an ad to study under Michelangelo. I'd have to say, "You Bet!" to either question!
 
kingfisher studio said:
A lot of art has degenerated into nothing more than gimmick in my opinion.

Mike Hull said:
I know that knifemaking is art, as do most makers. But, do any of us really want it officially recognized as such?
Art=government. Can anyone say, "National endowment for the arts"?:rolleyes::barf:
government=welfare subsidies for "artiste's":rolleyes:
Welfare subsidies=degradation of the "art":eek::barf:

There was art before the government, and there's art in spite of the government.
I'm happy just being a poor knifemaker.;):D

A number of years ago, the Canadian government paid some artist tens of thousands of dollars to decorate the lobby of some public building. The result was a two storey pannel painted red and titled "Voice of Fire". I think that he did it with a roller too.

Pat stated that "A craftsman uses his head and his hands. An artist uses his head, hands, and heart." I have been working in the development of industrial electronic equipment for over 20 years. Most of it will be locked up inside an electrical room so the aesthetic aspect of the design is not particularly important. Most of the people who will see the equipment would be paid to look at it. Some of it is butt ugly. Some of it actually looked pretty good and every thing "balanced out and flowed", like Raymend Richard said. The good stuff was designed by guys who put their hearts into it. The ugly stuff was designed by guys who just did it for the paycheck. You don't have to work with a guy for very long before you could predict what his work will look like.

M. Lovett, those judges that disqualified your work should visit the Museum of Fine Arts in Houston. It has daggers, swords and other weapons (some decorated, many are ancient) from various cultures on display. If it's good enough for the MFAH...

I have one of those ducks on a stick with the flappy feet. We bought it because of the emmotion that it caused us to have (joy). I think that it qualifies as performance art too :D

Phil
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Pos; Your reply just made me laugh out loud and brought a smile to my face.. Thanks a Million. M. Lovett P.S. How do you cook them? Always Loved Duck!
 
WE make a serious mistake when we allow others to judge us, for we become slaves to them. Most judges have no idea what they judge, but they enslave just the same.
I also made the mistake of entering various art contests. It only took me twice to know that their eyes were not to my love.
Also be careful when you feel satisfied with your work, you may be at the end of your rope. I have kept a few close ctitics who have the ability to push me through the hard times, they are my most prescious friends for they feed my mind with ideas that I have not considered. Find and nurture those who encourage when you are down and share when you are high.
 
Ed; Thanks for your words of wisdom. Always refreshing and enlighting. Your smarter than your years.. Or is that possible.. HE>>>HE. I met you breifly at the ontario show. I was ther, with Louis Chow for a meeting with Loveless the following day. I'm the guy with the white hair and, pony tail. Part of my Cherokee heratige I guess.. Thanks M. Lovett
 
Mike, poney tail? You are just an old hippie :)

I went through the Art spell in the late 80s/early 90s. Got the same responses that have been posted. I enjoyed making the pieces but sweated blood for the money I had tied up in them, until they sold.

That was about the time I decided I would get into the gray tur* d art field (tactical/utility) and I've never looked back.

Ed, Thank you for posting on our forum. Your words are always full of wisdom.
 
Kit: Thanks for the kind words, I have always wanted to stop by your table and spend some time with you, but it just has not happened yet. Maybe one day this year, I hope.
Take Care Friend
 
I've always felt the line between art and craft to be very blurry and subject to the eye of the beholder. It is possible for an object to be both art and craft, but when it comes to my knives, I make then with function in mind first, and if the artistry of the design suffers because of changes made for practical reasons, so be it. I can live with that. I want them to look good, and they sell better if they look good, but if that cool looking handle I designed doesn't feel that good in my hand, it gets scrapped for the slightly less visually appealing handle that does feel good.

Art is no just visual, my friends....if it feels good in the hand, really good, that is art to my hands, if not my eye.

90% of ancient art is found on practical, useful items, and that does not for one second detact from it's value as art.
 
Art is many things to me, as are knives. Anything made to express oneself, I believe, is art, and anything made with your heart is art as well.

My work, at this point, is more that of a craftsman than an artist. But I want my work to look good as well as function. My first work functioned, but that was about it. It was not visually appealing at all. The latest two that I've made are still very basic, but at least they look nice too. I love the way that finished oak looks.

I've never viewed myself as being good at art, but I like making things, as was mentioned earlier. I want to make two functional commemorative knives within the next eight years. My two best friends in the world are in the Marines and the Coast Guard, respectively. I want to produce a functional work of art for them, to show my appreciation of the service they do our country.
 
About 6 years ago I managed to get the Canadian Knifemakers Guild a show at one of the local public art galleries all funded by the gallery. The show ran for two months and the director of the gallery was very excited, it was the best attended show that he had hosted in many years. This sort of government funding is quite acceptable in my viewpoint.

I think the statute of limitations on funding has expired and the Guild may be elegible again for funding for another show, I think I will approach the director again. Failing a full guild show I could go for a personal show in a small corner of the gallery, they do shared space shows on a regular basis.
 
Oh yes, I forgot. Several months ago, the Museum of Fine Arts of Houston hosted a travelling exhibition of about 100 - 150 pieces of decorated, collectible firearms. The word "decorated" is the best that I can come up with right now. The decorations took the form of carving, gold and silver wire inlay, mother of pearl inlay, engraving, etc. There were even some damascus barrels. Some pieces were of recent manufacture. Some were ancient. Some of the original owners (collectors really) were people like Napoleon (I think). The exhibit was always busy with viewers. People who were not obviously gun nuts were going "Wow, I didn't know they could do that with metal and wood". The fact that the work was done on a gun was only incidental.

Phil
 
DaDanoska said:
Art is many things to me, as are knives. Anything made to express oneself, I believe, is art, and anything made with your heart is art as well.
My work, at this point, is more that of a craftsman than an artist.

I never really considered myself an artist, until I was able to get past the mechanics of whatever medium I was trying to master. A common myth out there is that artistic ability is somehow magically bestowed upon an artist. That may be true in the rarest of occasions, but most of us put alot of blood sweat, & tears into achieving the level of ability that we want. I am my own worst critic by far. Ed said earlier in the thread, that If you are ever satisfied with your own work,you may be at the end of your rope. I think this is absolutely true.That drive to achieve a higher level, is what makes a good artist.
Pat
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Ed put it into perfect context by saying if your ever satisfied you must be at the end of your rope. I feel when you reach the level of satisfaction the strive to improve is over. This type of art/craftsmanship is the type where you will always be learning and improving because of new techniques and ways to make knives. I learned this early on as a taxidermist. I practiced taxidermy for 10 years until family and work issues caused me to have to stop. That is one art that you will never feel total satisfaction because if you do it is definately time to quit. Knifemaking definately rides the fine line between being an art and a craft. It's all in what you want to make of it.
Scott
 
You know it's a good thread when you're walking through the regular workday thinking about what's been said and what's left to say. ;) This is a good thread.

Several times we've made a distinction between "craft" and "art." If there's a difference at all, it's a very fine one. I say this because even the most PTA Mom Plastic Flower Wreath was the result of close attention and personal drive - even heart. Lame, very possibly, and ugly, almost certainly, yet the product of however small a flame of inspiration. Perhaps we shouldn't think that "art" must be appealing. The NEA has financed some artworks that were, frankly, utterly offensive to me yet I'd give them the benefit of the handle "art" because they'd have fulfilled the criteria "made using head, hands and heart." At the same time I think any craftsman puts his heart into his work regardless whether it's macrame or building a ship in a bottle.

But my own definition of art is simpler, and less inclusive. At my workplace they have a tradition of decorating wallspace with "artworks." At the Administration Center in another state much of the art truly is beautiful and valuable, mostly oils by well known artists. In the office where I work the "art committee" doesn't get it. There is a budget for these people to spend on "art" and they spend it...on some of the ugliest, lamest, least skilled applications of oil or acrylic to canvas one can imagine. And these committee members are proud of their "acquisitions!" Oh, puke. It's sad, and worse, embarrassing. I am certain that some of our customers must have more taste than these employed yokels have, and I'm ashamed that our committee's severe lack of taste is displayed so wantonly. And yet - by my own definition this reaction might be misconstrued so as label those pieces "art."

So we get to my point - sorry. :rolleyes: My definition of art is simply that the piece should evoke an emotional reaction in the viewer. My digust and embarrassment is certainly an emotional reaction - but it's directed toward the "art committee", not toward the colored canvasses on our walls. I swear; I sometimes stand and look at these pictures - because that's really all they are - trying in vain to find the "art" in them. Nada. Despite their purchase at the honored local Art Festival, and their creation by Artists...these are not art. These are by and large Dreck. Maybe I'll take a picture of some of this stuff to show you what we spend significant amounts of money on. It'd make you sad.

Writing this I remembered a craft show we had at the office a few years back. I applied to display a knife and was declined. The reason was twofold: A knife is not art, and a knife could be a weapon and weapons are not allowed in the building. I was not surprised but I was disappointed. I'm pretty proud of my work and by this definition of art even some of my own knives could qualify. Most of the knives I see here knock my socks off; some have literally made my heart rate go sky high and my smile stretch nearly off my face. Sometimes I go through the day with visions of these blades stirring my imagination relentlessly. If that's not an emotional reaction I'll eat your hat.
 
ddavelarsen said:
..............
But my own definition of art is simpler, and less inclusive. At my workplace they have a tradition of decorating wallspace with "artworks." At the Administration Center in another state much of the art truly is beautiful and valuable, mostly oils by well known artists. .........
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Dang Dave, you've never seen the Renoir in my shop??;):D
 
Now that is class... :eek:! Way to go Mike. Closest I've come to art in my shop is a paleolithic-like hand print... :D

hand.jpg
 
That's true. I'll probably never be fully satisfied with my work. Perhaps I should say that there are certain goals that I would like to reach before I try my more artistic ideas.
 
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