Knife - More weapon or tool?

While a knife wouldn't be most folks first choice to save their lives, a knife in the hands of someone with training can do a huge amount of damage very quickly.
 
I now EDC a Kershaw leek, s30v/g10, mainly for cutting open mail and slicing food on the run for my 2 young kids. I also use it for whatever is needed, and I really like the fact that the knife can go from pocket to open, in one second, in one hand, and be back in the pocket soon. I don't have to drop anything and I get on with life after each use of my tool.

sharpinend said:
The most effective weapon is a deterrent... like an exposed gun or knife, or one brandished after a situation has already gone south; one that makes the aggressor turn around and leave.
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I hope I never have to pretend I am going to effectively use an EDC as a weapon, because I recognize that this would probably end badly for me personally, or legally, or both. (I have zero training and zero combat experience, and life-or-death is difficult to convince a judge of after you've gutted an unarmed scumbag)

If a situation goes south, I mean really south where leaving is no longer an option, I would like my 1-second draw and the oh-so-satisfying click of the leek opening to do all the work (testify, flipper owners). If I were a small-time criminal, I would quickly decide to pick on someone with, at best, a slower and shorter knife.

After that, if the click and my meanest look holding my knife don't do anything, then I am probably screwed anyway. At this point I will slash and growl as necessary with my tool/theft deterrent in hand, or swing something larger if it presents itself (while I piss myself no doubt).

Here's to safe holidays for all of us, and no self-defense. And let's give thanks for all the LEOs and soldiers who work everyday to keep us writing about self-defense rather than trying it.
 
StretchNM said:
My hands are tools - I use them for eveything. If I'm attacked and they're the most fearsome objects within my reach, they become weapons.
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When it comes down to it, my knives are tools. If I had to use one as a weapon, I'm confident I could. I know one thing for sure, if I were attacked, and needed a weapon, my hands will be in play faster than I could draw any knife.

My knives are tools, like my mind and hands, I NEVER leave home without them.
 
I guess I'll be the holdout and confess that while my EDC is a tool, I carry it to use as a weapon. Unfortunately, it's the best I can do to arm myself legally, and even then it's a little dicey. I have an EMT card and have business cards from a couple of fire chiefs who arrived on scene after I was holding inline stabilization on a patient, so I can say that it's for "cutting seatbelts" or whatever.

But.

I spend a lot of time in bad neighborhoods. Not anywhere near as much as I used to, but I do. I can't carry a gun at work, which is when I find myself in the hood. I'll be damned if I'm going down without a fight. I acknowledge that I'd probably end up shot through the liver and bleeding out on the sidewalk, but screw it. That bullet isn't going to kill me for a couple hours at least, and if I can get to the shooter he's going down too.

In reality, the last time I pulled it out it was to hand to a girl to cut a slice of chocolate cake. But I remember one night in particular walking down a dark alley in a place that's very well known for drunk illegals to go pass out or do other stupid things. I had it out and open and in my hand as I made my way through the filthy slums of the worst parts of Los Angeles. I already know I'm not much of a fighter so I want every advantage I can get.

The best option is obviously to not go to the hood. That's what I'm working towards right now. Don't go to bad neighborhoods and you don't have to think about all this crap.
 
My knives are WEAPONS - cold steel, pure and sharp!! :thumbup:

I've yet to encounter any fruit, vegetable, bread, plastic, or even wood that I have not been able to TOTALLY DEFEAT with my edged weapons!!!

Here are some strawberries - they don't stand a chance against a real weapon:

istockphoto_1575949_knife_slicing_strawberries_on_cutting_board.jpg
 
Lots of good arguments on here to support a knife as a tool, and I'm still in agreement with that assessment. For the past 15 years or so, I've carried two knives; one is a sm/med slipjoint of some form carried in my left front pocket, second is a large single blade locking knife that goes in my right front pocket all by itself. I guess that 99% of my knife work is handled by the slipjoint. Then why carry the large "tactical" folder? Maybe on a subconcious level I see it as a wepon of last resort, don't know. What I do know id that I get great enjoyment out of carrying what often times is a unique folder and I also get great enjoyment out of playing with said folder. When in a group of folks I know well I might just use the larger knife, but in most instances I simply use the slipjoint knife because the vast majority of people in my neck of the woods view that type knife as a tool..........just like I do. Very interesting thread we have going here.:thumbup:
 
Heres a list of things i do with my knife that no other too will do

Cut hose and paracord easily
clean edge dressing from shoes
cut a man free thats been bound with duct tape ( long story but just try and do that with a disposable razor blade)
help scrape carbon from a 240B bolt
carve points on sticks
pry open a door
use the edge as a screw driver.

that being said i have a double edged boot dagger in my boot. smith and wesson spec ops. its a pos but it would stab the hell out of someone.

i used folding knives as han weights when i fight, saving the blade for if i really need it.

everything is a weapon.
id rather hit the guy with a chair pool cue or any other blunt object and smash his face from a distance, a small folding or fixed blade knife is not as effective as a pipe or alot of random stuff ive pulled out of alleys or bars. i really dont wanan get any closer than i hav to, to a guy with a weapon.:(
 
Never pulled a knife on anyone.Had one pulled on me once in a bar though.Luckily the guy was so drunk,he could barely stand.Disarmed him easily with a baseball cap(ruined a perfectly good hat!) & somehow his nose got broken..LOL.Anyway,long story short,Bartender called cops,cops through HIM in jail.That's the closest call I've ever had.
Knives are tools to me.Very beautiful "artlike" tools.I'd much rather use a blunt object ie:extendible baton,kubotan or even weighted gloves for a weapon than a knife.Just something about carving into someone,really disturbs me.:barf:
 
Rich357 said:
An instructor I had liked to remind us that our brain is the weapon and the knife (or anything we can get our hands on) is a tool.
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That's the best answer here.

If you don't have the mind set to use anything as a weapon, even a gun or a tank won't do you much good.

I use my sharpened steel to cut things, I use my guns to procure meat and test my target shooting ability. Lots of fun shooting at paper or water bottles!

My brain is the real weapon no matter what tool I use to accomplish the task whether it be a gun, knife, hammer, golf club or a car.
 
Good points Topher, also, many other good points made. True, I have never used my knife as a weapon. Hope I never have to. My point is, I assume that most people here do not EDC a small victorinox knife. Most people have something larger. Would you agree that most everyday cutting jobs, for the AVERAGE person, could be accomplished by that small vic knife? So, a larger knife is really overkill and really more of a weapon that serves as a tool rather than a tool that can serve as a weapon. Yes, anything can serve as a weapon, but I don't CONSCIOUSLY carry anything other than a knife and think of it consciously as a weapon.

You do have very valid points. I'm just trying to be true to myself as to what I feel. I will never stop carrying my larger EDC along with my small vic on my keychain. As one poster said, just looking at it and holding it gives me a strange satisfaction.

Thanks for all your responses.

Read only 3 or 4 responses who admitted it is mostly a tool for them, so guess I'm in the minority.

Happy Holidays to everyone!
 
southbeachlaw said:
Good points Topher, also, many other good points made. True, I have never used my knife as a weapon. Hope I never have to. My point is, I assume that most people here do not EDC a small victorinox knife. Most people have something larger. Would you agree that most everyday cutting jobs, for the AVERAGE person, could be accomplished by that small vic knife? So, a larger knife is really overkill and really more of a weapon that serves as a tool rather than a tool that can serve as a weapon. Yes, anything can serve as a weapon, but I don't CONSCIOUSLY carry anything other than a knife and think of it consciously as a weapon.

You do have very valid points. I'm just trying to be true to myself as to what I feel. I will never stop carrying my larger EDC along with my small vic on my keychain. As one poster said, just looking at it and holding it gives me a strange satisfaction.

Thanks for all your responses.

Read only 3 or 4 responses who admitted it is mostly a tool for them, so guess I'm in the minority.

Happy Holidays to everyone!
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Good thoughts. I think it is true that most of us carry more of a blade than we need to for what we use it for. But that does not necessarily make the blade a weapon in our thoughts, or at least it doesn't in mine. I carry a larger knife for somewhat the same reason you spoke of above. Carrying a piece of steel and holding it in my hand gives me a feeling satisfaction. But it is the inherient beauty of the steel that gets me. I love the solid feel of it in my hand. I still do not think of it as a weapon, nor would I ever carry it as such.
 
This question really isn't. If you look in the dictionary, both weapon and tool are defined as "An implement or device used to..." So the only difference is in what it's used to do, so: cut an apple = tool, cut a bad guy = weapon.

Knives are just so versatile! With all that said, isn't a "weapon" just a tool anyway?
 
I never intend for my knives to be anything other than tools.

I grew up on a farm and was given my first folder when I was really small and I've had a knife of one type or other ever since. How to sharpen and care for good tools was a ritual with my Dad. I'll never be as good as he was at it but I do try.

I've been into Benchmades this last few years and have been in the trades for a long time. There's always something to cut or snip so I always have a sharp tool in my pocket!

Have a good one.
 
I carry mostly 4" bladed locking knives that I use all the time at the office, at home or where-ever I'm at. It's a tool to me first. Yet if I am attacked I will use it to defend my life. I was waiting for a bus in downtown Sacramento, CA when some thug jumped up on the bus bench and started threatining me. I responded calmly and without fear. At the same time I pulled up my shirt and hooked my thumb over my BM 710 so he could see it. The dirtbag decided somebody else would be easier prey and left. He saw it as a weapon and it never left my pocket.

I much prefer using my knives than any utility razor unless I'm cutting carpet or asphalt shingles. :)
 
I would definitly prefer a good blade to any sort of impact weapon. I have seen a crazed steroid using hockey player take a crowbar to the head and just get more angry but no one shakes off a severed carotid artery. Since the only country in the world you can actually carry a handgun for self defence is the US and even there it is getting more and more restricted it makes a lot of sense to know how to use the most efficient weapon we can have.

Knives are a more deadly weapon than most people especially handgun owners think.
According to the FBI stab wounds are twice as likely to be fatal as gunshots.
Most gunfights(in the US) happen at close enough range for a blade to be just as effective anyway.

Still I want my knife to be useful as a tool for more than it needs to be an effective weapon. My Spyderco Chinook3 is an excellent example of a knife that does both jobs well.
 
I have seen a crazed steroid using hockey player take a crowbar to the head and just get more angry but no one shakes off a severed carotid artery....
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I have seen a lot of people injured by knives at work but have never seen the carotid artery damaged by a knife attack by someone else. I'm guessing that it's because it's very hard to cut someone that deeply against their will. The neck is a pretty small target and most people successfully defend it quite easily. One shouldn't count on being able to inflict this type of injury in a self defense situation. Odds against it are probably a million to one.

According to the FBI stab wounds are twice as likely to be fatal as gunshots.
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I would believe that. Given that it's the FBI reporting it, I'm guessing it's for the US. Here in Canada we see far more knife victims than gunshot wounds because, well... people just don't really get shot around here. The ratio here is more like 1000:1.


Since the only country in the world you can actually carry a handgun for self defence is the US....
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That's interesting. I didn't know that.
 
southbeachlaw said:
Good points Topher, also, many other good points made. True, I have never used my knife as a weapon. Hope I never have to. My point is, I assume that most people here do not EDC a small victorinox knife. Most people have something larger. Would you agree that most everyday cutting jobs, for the AVERAGE person, could be accomplished by that small vic knife? So, a larger knife is really overkill and really more of a weapon that serves as a tool rather than a tool that can serve as a weapon. Yes, anything can serve as a weapon, but I don't CONSCIOUSLY carry anything other than a knife and think of it consciously as a weapon.
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I would absolutely agree that the average person could accomplish most, if not all, of their common daily cutting jobs with a small SAK. I would also say that a cook could accomplish most, if not all, of their common meal preparation cutting with a single small paring knife. However, that doesn't stop me from reaching for my 8" chef's knife or 7" santoku when I'm prepping dinner. ;-)

Just because you can accomplish something with a smaller blade doesn't necessarily mean it's the most efficient or best way of doing it. And that's also why I don't plan to stop carrying my Spyderco Salt 1, even though I also have a SAK in my pocket. The SAK is great for a lot of things, and it gets used regularly, but with the pocket clip, one-hand opening ability, locking blade, and longer blade, the Salt is more convenient for most jobs requiring a knife. Also, there have been occasions where the longer blade on the Salt made a job easier than it would have been with the SAK. So I wouldn't say that just because someone is carrying more than the minimum amount of knife that they'll need, that they're doing so with the thought of it as a weapon.

I would not deny that some people likely carry a larger knife for the way it makes them feel safer. I also think some people do it simply due to aesthetics, they think a particular knife looks better. And I think some people do it because a longer blade (up to a point, if it's too long it becomes very unwieldy) gives you a more flexible tool, depending on what duties you make put it towards.

To give you another analogy of why I think a lot of people who are carrying a knife aren't making do with just a Victorinox Classic, look at cars. Most people could manage just fine with a 2 seater economy car. But, some people like the look and performance of a sports car, even if they aren't racing with it. Some people like the rugged durability and flexibility of a truck. Some people need the space and cargo room of a van. And then there's the SUV soccer moms. They're driving huge overpriced vehicles that are way larger than they'll ever need, get horrible gas mileage, are difficult to park, etc. And they're doing it to feel "safer".

Now, I'm not trying to equate you with a SUV soccer mom. Well, maybe I am, a little bit. But it wasn't intentional, and that wasn't what I was thinking when I originally wrote the soccer mom line. It just sorta happened that way. ;-)

Either way, I'm definitely not going to tell you what kinfe you should carry. While I may not think that carrying a knife for protection makes a lot of sense, or is even a very good idea, if carrying it makes you feel safer, there's nothing inherently wrong with that (and I'd even go so far as to say that it's not an uncommon feeling). Owning and carrying a knife is a personal decision. There are tons of reasons why we choose to do so, and luckily, there's lots of different knives out there for each of us. ;-)

This has definitely been one of the more interesting threads I've seen on bladeforums recently.
 
This is a great thread by the way!

For the longest time I have carried something clipped to my right pocket. Currently it's a "Kreined" Small Sebenza during the week at work and a Spyderco Para Military sometimes on the weekend if I feel the urge to have "more" of a knife in my pocket. I also always have a leatherman Juice in my left front pocket.

I've always had this "romantic" idea that that knife in my rf pocket was "just in case". I hope to God that it never comes to that....but I know I would use it as a defensive weapon if I felt I had to to defend my wife or myself. Most of the time though reality is that it is a tool waiting for the opportunity to cut open a box or slice some veggies.

The thing that many people in our P.C. society don't seem to comprehend....and I understand explicitly.....it that object or tools can't become weapons without human intervention. A knife is a tool until a human being picks it up with the intent to use it defensively or offensively.

Steve
 
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