Knife Questioned by the Sheriff

And, by the way, counties in Colorado are empowered to pass local laws ("ordinances" in Colorado terminology) that may include laws regulating the carrying of concealed weapons.
Not true. Local jurisdictions may not preempt the Colorado concealed carry laws. One exception is that in City and County of Denver you may not open carry. The Colorado concealed carry laws only pertain to firearms. If you meant that counties may regulate knife carry, I don't know and I'm not interested in looking it up. I always carry knife and pistol and as far as I know I am legal anywhere. A knife under 3.5" is not a weapon unless used against a person. It is illegal to carry a knife in Colorado, and CRS decrees that a knife will have a blade over 3.5". A knife over 3.5" is not allowed unless you are engaged in an activity which requires it.

Do your own research. Here's what I think: A blade under 3.5" is not legally a knife in Colorado. You may carry it either concealed or exposed. What you look like and what you are doing when contacted by the Deputy will determine his attitude about your status. If the Deputy suspects illegal activity any knife could be deemed a weapon and therefore illegal.

In your situation I would: Make an appointment with the Sheriff. (You wrote "sheriff" but I think you meant "Deputy Sheriff.") Dress nice, get a haircut. Discuss with him, politely, what his department's policy is, and his understanding of Colorado law. Show him the appropriate CRS if necessary. Ask him if his deputy was acting within policy. He needs to know if his officers are acting outside the law. The Sheriff is an elective position and any big stink could cost him the next election.
 
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How did the sheriff came to know that the OP had a concealed Silent Soldier? We do not know.

What does the respective county law provide? We don't know.

So we don't know what the OP's rights actually are. In short, that's a big "if" in "IF . . . there was no law violation." The terrible sheriff may have been letting him off easy.

The OP thinks he can get a "concealed weapon permit" in Colorado for a knife. So he may not be fully informed on the law that applies to him and his knife. The terrible sheriff may have been letting him off easy.

My attitude is that you ought to know the facts before you make a decision that can have serious consequences, much less advise a stranger. Jails and prisons are generally not pleasant places - if it's you doing the time. You can "say" you have skin in the game. The guy doing time has so much more. It's like the farmer, the pig, and bacon. The pig REALLY has skin in the game.

Secondly, my attitude is that before you put, at the least, your liberty in jeopardy you ought to carefully consider what you have to gain or lose. You have a individual human right to weigh possible consequences against possible benefits. If only the rights and interest of the collective count, you are in another country.

Finally, if you want to take on the establishment, they will be no more offended or powerful if that lawyer y'all keep talking about is in court tomorrow seeking a court ruling. No more need be done if going to law over your EDC is what you really want to do. That approach has worked fairly well for gun rights. But even the NRA picks its fights. Or so they tell me regularly, usually when asking for even more money.


And if you want to call names, don't pull punches. Just let it all hang out. It's the Internet. Name-calling may add weight to your argument - with some.

ED:
Not true. Local jurisdictions may not preempt the Colorado concealed carry laws.

As noted above in this thread, Colorado has a law providing for issuance of permits for the carrying of concealed hand guns. There is no permit for carrying any other sort of weapon. That state of the law does not, in my mind, make it "untrue" to call a concealed Silent Soldier a "weapon," but I should not have assumed that anyone reads all of a thread. I often do not. Thank you for you effort to add clarity to the discussion, and I apologize for any unintended sewing of confusion.
 
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My attitude is that you ought to know the facts before you make a decision that can have serious consequences.

Secondly, my attitude is that before you put, at the least, your liberty in jeopardy you ought to carefully consider what you have to gain or lose. You have a individual human right to weigh possible consequences against possible benefits.
These ^ statements I can agree with. But they are far different than this one-

My input would be to do what he told you unless you are planning to leave tomorrow. Seriously

That doesn't sound like your advising him to first find out what his rights are, or his legal options, before he decides what to do. It sounds like you were telling him to just give up his rights and submit to some hypothetical threat of harassment. That was my interpretation of your post.

And as far as advising a stranger without knowing all the facts, that didn't stop you, so perhaps you shouldn't criticize others for offering advice.

And what advice did we give the OP? No one advised him to do anything illegal or dangerous. No one said "Hey bro, that cop is a putz. Just do whatever you want and don't worry about it".

Quite the contrary. Several of us gave the same advice- Learn the law. Print out the law. Contact a lawyer if necessary. Have a polite talk with the sheriff. I would hardly consider any of those suggestions to be bad advice that could endanger the OP. Quite the opposite, they might very well sort out the whole matter to the OP's satisfaction.

In my opinion, to tell the OP to just give up his rights, without even trying, is bad enough. But to criticize people for advising the OP to pursue the very simple, reasonable, and lawful options available to him to protect his rights, is something I find extremely objectionable, and the inspiration for my posts.

A few other things I'd like to address-

Since this is a DISCUSSION FORUM, I think it's sometimes necessary to take a person at their word, at least for the sake of discussion. It's impossible to have any sort of meaningful discussion if you just assume that everything everyone says is a lie. No, we don't have all the facts. NO, we weren't there. But we aren't deciding whether or not to send someone to the gas chamber. So as long as we don't give BAD advice that could endanger someone, I see no harm being done.

I'm willing to give the OP the benefit of the doubt that he's not a criminal, and that he wasn't involved in any criminal activity at the time. After all, I seriously doubt that any LEO would let a suspected criminal, who was up to no good, walk away with a knife. And I can imagine several very realistic ways that a cop might become aware of a person carrying a concealed fixed-blade (clothing moves, printing, cop see's you adjusting it, you take it out to cut something, or maybe they were having a friendly conversation and the subject of knives just came up, and the OP mentioned what he had on him). I'm sure that LEO's know many ways to spot a concealed fixed-blade.

Furthermore, there have been assumptions made that this sheriff is some corrupt a-hole who will commit all kinds of wrongdoing towards the OP if he stands up for his rights. Where is the evidence of this corruption? For all we know, the sheriff could be a nice, reasonable guy who simply got the knife law wrong. This is not uncommon among LEO's, and it's the reason I repeatedly used the word "misinformed" when talking about LEO's in my first post. And again, the fact that he didn't confiscate the knife is evidence that he ISN'T some corrupt a-hole.

For all we know, a little online research, and a friendly chat with the sheriff may be all it takes for the OP to resolve the entire matter in his favor. And who knows, perhaps by educating local law enforcement on the knife law, the OP might be saving other knife owners from having their rights inadvertently violated.

And for the record, although I feel VERY strongly about rights, and the protection of those rights, this is just me enjoying a spirited discussion. Nothing personal, and no offense intended on my part. :)
 
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And here's a story that I think is relevant-

Years ago I worked a shipping dock. We all carried and used knives of one sort or another, some folders, some fixed-blades.

There was a young man who started carrying a folder, but switched to a fixed-blade after seeing others of us using them. I carried my fixed-blade all the time, including away from work, and this was something the young man was interested in doing, but he thought it was illegal.

So I educated him on the law, his rights, and how to deal with LEO's. I also printed out the relevant fixed-blade laws and gave them to him to carry in his wallet.

The knife he carried was one he inherited from his father, so it had extra value to him. The guy didn't have money to buy knives, so he carried and used the knife he had. Sometimes he carried it on his belt, and sometimes, when away from work, he carried it in his backpack.

One day at the start of the work shift, the guy comes up to me all excited, with a big smile on his face, and tells me the following story-

The night before he was riding his bicycle when he was stopped by a cop. The cop said he stopped the guy because he resembled the description of a wanted suspect. The cop searched the guys backpack and found the knife.

The cop says- "Why are you carrying this weapon?".

And just as I had advised him, the guy says- "It's not a weapon, it's a cutting tool.".

The cop then declares that the knife is illegal and says he's confiscating it.

The guy says "Wait a minute, I've got the law right here.", and proceeds to pull the printout I gave him from his wallet.

Before the guy can even get the printout unfolded the cop says "Alright, alright", puts the knife back in the backpack, gives the backpack to the guy, and they both go their separate ways. I guess the cop figured that someone who knows the law, and their rights, might be willing to cause a stink over an illegally confiscated knife, and decided it wasn't worth the headache.

Needless to say, the young man was very proud of himself, and very grateful towards me. And I was very proud of him as well.

So you see, sometimes protecting your rights is just that simple. No legal battles. No time behind bars. No violence or harassment. Sometimes all it takes is knowing your rights, and being willing to speak up for them.
 
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Not true. Local jurisdictions may not preempt the Colorado concealed carry laws. One exception is that in City and County of Denver you may not open carry. The Colorado concealed carry laws only pertain to firearms. If you meant that counties may regulate knife carry, I don't know and I'm not interested in looking it up....

I don't of course know the laws of he city/county in question, but CO does not have state preemption regarding knifes.

- OS
 
Thank you very much for your input. I will figure out a way to meet with the attorney. The town that I live in is so small that I am friends with this sheriff's son so if it turns out that I am right, I will inform him (very respectfully) of the law. Carrying the law in my wallet is a great idea. I will make sure to do that. I am familiar with the statutes as I am a police explorer and plan to be law enforcement when I become 21.
 
My objective with the CRK Professional Soldier was a defensive blade as I am trained in Krav Maga and do know how to use the blade to defend my life should the need arise.
That being said, I will never week confrontation. The knife is a LAST DITCH DEFENSIVE TOOL, not intended to violate any laws.
 
I will do what ever is necessary to defend my rights. However, I think that I will go about in in a respectful way and speak to an attorney and inform him of the law and keep a printout of the knife laws in my wallet sould anyone attempt to knowingly or unknowingly infringe upon my rights.
 
Ahawk1911,

You sound like a very intelligent and mature young man. And it looks like you are on the right track in life. I think your community will be a better place if you enter a career in law enforcement. It never hurts to have LEO's who know their local knife laws to the letter, and believe in a persons right to carry knives.

I wish you the best of luck in all that you do.
 
Ahawk1911,

You sound like a very intelligent and mature young man. And it looks like you are on the right track in life. I think your community will be a better place if you enter a career in law enforcement. It never hurts to have LEO's who know their local knife laws to the letter, and believe in a persons right to carry knives.

I wish you the best of luck in all that you do.

Agreed.

...and if I might add.....

When you take your Oath of Office....MEAN EVERY WORD OF IT.

You will swear [or affirm to] Support and defend The Constitution of the United States....and all State and Local/Jurisdictional Law......................

Remember what comes FIRST in the Oath. Remember why it's first - because The Constitution is THE the most important part of the sentence. It is THE Law of the Land and all others come secondary to IT.


You don't want your Rights violated....then don't violate those of others.

Print this and keep it in your shirt pocket at ALL times: http://constitutionbooklet.com/constitutionbooklet.pdf
 
I have talked to many members of Law Enforcement and asked at my criminal Justice class. What I was doing was not illegal. I did not however contact an attorney because I am a poor 18 year old and cannot afford one. I am currently out of town and plan to speak to the deputy as to the law in the most respectful way possible. I Will print out a copy of the law when I get back and always carry it. I will give another update sometime in the next week when I do speak to the deputy.
 
Only thing to add: make sure to measure the entire blade length past the ricasso, and not just the edged region. If it has a choil, that's part of the blade. If the ricasso is angled, measure from the longest possible distance to the tip. If LE is going to hassle you, they're going to rank it as large as possible.

If its even close, I'd swap out for a smaller blade and continue carrying as you wish, maybe keep the code with you. I have never once met LE that welcomed being corrected though it can get you off without an arrest if everyone keeps calm.

I find it hard to believe the individual will suffer any consequences if they mistakenly arrest you. Even a lawsuit generally pays out of the local taxpayer's pockets, not the officer's, and in some cases the officer never even learns what the settlement amount was...
 
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