- Joined
- Nov 1, 1998
- Messages
- 61
WARNING! Heavy on half-baked philosophy and inciting to riot! This is specifically a reply to a post which Drew made yesterday - you may wish to review his post before you read mine.
WOW, Drew - sounds like you and I look at things a LOT differently!
First the things we see the same - yes, I fully agree that different knives have different uses. My everyday 'rough-as-a-cob' Barr would be inappropriate when dressed up in my spiffies for a dinner out at a high-end restaurant, so I'll take something smaller and 'pretty'. After that, I'm afraid you and I differ - a LOT!
Driving my car from 0 to 60 to see if it matches the ads - no, but before I buy that car, I'll have read at least one, and probably more, tests from (hopefully) unbiased testing organizations, such as Consumer's Union and/or the popular car magazines. These folks test a representative sample, and I have some amount of confidence that what they tested is pretty similar to what I buy.
Now let's take the knife industry, and even more the custom knife industry. Except for some testing by some members on rec.knives, I'm not aware of any testing AT ALL on knives. The knife magazines, or their writers, are much too attached to the knife makers/manufacturers for their advertising or next knives to give anything approaching an objective review of any knives. And even if they did, the custom makers pride themselves on doing each knife individually, requiring us to judge each knife individually.
I am NOT saying that the great knife makers are making poor knives. I am NOT saying that Les Robertson would sell you or me a poor knife. But I was trained as an engineer, and I WANT TO DO IT MYSELF! I want to know what the grading criteria are for a folder, and I want to understand each and every one of those rules. I want to get those rules from knowledgeable people, such as Darrel Ralph or A. T. Barr, but I DON'T blindly accept those rules UNLESS I UNDERSTAND AND AGREE WITH THEM!
If someone tells me 'This is a good thing, because I say it's a good thing!', well . . . He may be much more knowledgeable than I (not that difficult). He may have spent 50 years in the field (when I have MUCH less experience). He may have made his living dealing with or making knives, when I am only an admitted hobbyist. He may use knives in many demanding ways, and be able to speak from harsh experience. BUT HE AIN'T GONNA SPEAK TO ME NO MORE!
Some people truly know what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is bad. And if I feel the need for them to tell me this, from their position of absolute knowledge and belief, I'll go to church and listen to them!
My two favorite knife-makers are A. T. Barr and Johnny Stout, simply because I've spent more time with them at shows than any other knifemakers. I consider both of them FAR more knowledgeable than I am on folding knives. And I have sat and asked them questions, and when they said 'This is a good thing, and this is a bad thing', I would ask 'Why?' And they would answer - not sometimes, not usually, but ALWAYS they would explain why. They would NEVER say 'Accept that this is good because I know more than you' (even if it happens to be true).
We may be getting into some pretty basic philosophy here. When I was in school they told me about a man named Ohm, and a 'law' he made. No one ever said 'Mr. Ohm was a great man, and you should accept his rules, since he is widely respected and knew great things'. No, they gave me some instruments and made me prove it for myself. And I felt better for it. And my faith, or lack of it, in the great Ohm mattered not at all.
Too much philosophy on a Friday night is probably bad for your digestion, so I'll just say, Drew, that we have a FAR different world-view. I am not putting yours down - if you're happy with it, more power to you. But when I'm looking at a knife, I'm reminded of a Reganism that I particularly liked - 'Trust, but verify'. And if someone tells me 'I know what knife you should buy better than you do' - well, I think I've made my feelings on that clear.
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WOW, Drew - sounds like you and I look at things a LOT differently!
First the things we see the same - yes, I fully agree that different knives have different uses. My everyday 'rough-as-a-cob' Barr would be inappropriate when dressed up in my spiffies for a dinner out at a high-end restaurant, so I'll take something smaller and 'pretty'. After that, I'm afraid you and I differ - a LOT!
Driving my car from 0 to 60 to see if it matches the ads - no, but before I buy that car, I'll have read at least one, and probably more, tests from (hopefully) unbiased testing organizations, such as Consumer's Union and/or the popular car magazines. These folks test a representative sample, and I have some amount of confidence that what they tested is pretty similar to what I buy.
Now let's take the knife industry, and even more the custom knife industry. Except for some testing by some members on rec.knives, I'm not aware of any testing AT ALL on knives. The knife magazines, or their writers, are much too attached to the knife makers/manufacturers for their advertising or next knives to give anything approaching an objective review of any knives. And even if they did, the custom makers pride themselves on doing each knife individually, requiring us to judge each knife individually.
I am NOT saying that the great knife makers are making poor knives. I am NOT saying that Les Robertson would sell you or me a poor knife. But I was trained as an engineer, and I WANT TO DO IT MYSELF! I want to know what the grading criteria are for a folder, and I want to understand each and every one of those rules. I want to get those rules from knowledgeable people, such as Darrel Ralph or A. T. Barr, but I DON'T blindly accept those rules UNLESS I UNDERSTAND AND AGREE WITH THEM!
If someone tells me 'This is a good thing, because I say it's a good thing!', well . . . He may be much more knowledgeable than I (not that difficult). He may have spent 50 years in the field (when I have MUCH less experience). He may have made his living dealing with or making knives, when I am only an admitted hobbyist. He may use knives in many demanding ways, and be able to speak from harsh experience. BUT HE AIN'T GONNA SPEAK TO ME NO MORE!
Some people truly know what is right and what is wrong, what is good and what is bad. And if I feel the need for them to tell me this, from their position of absolute knowledge and belief, I'll go to church and listen to them!
My two favorite knife-makers are A. T. Barr and Johnny Stout, simply because I've spent more time with them at shows than any other knifemakers. I consider both of them FAR more knowledgeable than I am on folding knives. And I have sat and asked them questions, and when they said 'This is a good thing, and this is a bad thing', I would ask 'Why?' And they would answer - not sometimes, not usually, but ALWAYS they would explain why. They would NEVER say 'Accept that this is good because I know more than you' (even if it happens to be true).
We may be getting into some pretty basic philosophy here. When I was in school they told me about a man named Ohm, and a 'law' he made. No one ever said 'Mr. Ohm was a great man, and you should accept his rules, since he is widely respected and knew great things'. No, they gave me some instruments and made me prove it for myself. And I felt better for it. And my faith, or lack of it, in the great Ohm mattered not at all.
Too much philosophy on a Friday night is probably bad for your digestion, so I'll just say, Drew, that we have a FAR different world-view. I am not putting yours down - if you're happy with it, more power to you. But when I'm looking at a knife, I'm reminded of a Reganism that I particularly liked - 'Trust, but verify'. And if someone tells me 'I know what knife you should buy better than you do' - well, I think I've made my feelings on that clear.
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