Knife sharpening: A tool for small blades and idiots.

[itsafire]

Hi,
I've tried a few things in my time. My kitchen knives get sharp enough to slice anything without effort,
but my pocket knives are a different matter entirely.
I mainly use smaller knives:
A Manly Wasp with S90V blade, a Bugout with S90V, and a TRM with S35V.

Sharpening those poses problems for me. I've tried and failed getting acceptable results.
I've used (water) stones, the Lansky system and more stones.

Now I'm looking for something that is:
-1. Idiot proof. I dont have very good fine motor skills.
-2. Simple. With something like the Lansky system, I felt like it took longer to set up and change the stones than the actual sharpening did.
-3. Will work well with a sub 3 inch blade of a pocket knife.

I'm willing to pay for my incompetence, so price is not that much of an issue.

I've had a look at the Horl system and I liked it a lot - small, simple, set up and put away in seconds ...
..but I've read multiple reviews that claimed the system works great for your kitchen cutlery but is not so good with small curved blades.



Any ideas what I should look at?

 

[Maroco]

I'd check out the work sharp ken onion belt sharpener. It's a pretty fool proof setup. I have one lightly used with all the different belts I'd sell you for cheap if you decide it's something you want.

 

[elevator man]

I use a dmt Aligner system. Less than a Benjamin and handles 15v and k390 with zero issues. Works well, easy to use, quick to setup. Not the highest end system but it's effective. I think of it as the "big boy lansky". It's also portable, I sharpened a knife the other day sitting in my lawn chair while camping, one thing a more expensive table mounted system can't do

 

[itsafire]

I'd check out the work sharp ken onion belt sharpener. It's a pretty fool proof setup. I have one lightly used with all the different belts I'd sell you for cheap if you decide it's something you want.

That looks like something my clumsy hands can operate. Thank you!

 

[Maroco]

I think it's just what you're looking for!

 

[JJ_Colt45]

That looks like something my clumsy hands can operate. Thank you!

The big issue with using a powered sharpener is you can easily overheat the blades and ruin the temper. So unless you use a water cooled belt system and low speed I wouldn't recommend it.

If you want fixed angle sharpeners there are several options and seems it depends on personal preference as to which system people prefer. Some of the most commonly talked about. You can search discussions on here about all of these using the search function (the magnifying glass) in the upper right corner.

Wicked Edge
Hapstone
TSPROF
KME
Edge Pro

A newer one that gets good reviews.

Work Sharp Professional Precision Adjust

 

[UncleBoots]

If fixed angle works for you, the Spyderco system is nice, and you can get diamond rods for it, which would probably do a better job on those S90V knives than waterstones.

 

[Dutch87]

The big issue with using a powered sharpener is you can easily overheat the blades and ruin the temper. So unless you use a water cooled belt system and low speed I wouldn't recommend it.

I'm not speaking from experience, but my understanding is that the Worksharp belt sharpeners run slow and won't overheat the edge.

Outdoor55 made a video testing out that very thing

 

[Alberta Ed]

You need diamond hones for those steels. A simple DMT duofold (coarse/fine) would be all you need.

 

[JJ_Colt45]

I'm not speaking from experience, but my understanding is that the Worksharp belt sharpeners run slow and won't overheat the edge.

Outdoor55 made a video testing out that very thing

I have a friend that bought a Work Sharp power sharpener several years ago and he quickly messed up a couple knives by overheating so it wouldn't be my recommendation. Just trying to help by sharing what I know about it, you'll have to decide for yourself I guess.

 

[Maroco]

I have a friend that bought a Work Sharp power sharpener several years ago and he quickly messed up a couple knives by overheating so it wouldn't be my recommendation. Just trying to help by sharing what I know about it, you'll have to decide for yourself I guess.

It's alot like making cuts on wood. Start slow, you can always speed up!

I've sharpened hundreds of knives on mine without issue. Learning how to operate the machine is key with these powered sharpeners. Take it slow, practice with a crap knife first to figure out your flow.

Just because something can happen doesn't mean it will!

 

[JJ_Colt45]

.

It's alot like making cuts on wood. Start slow, you can always speed up!

I've sharpened hundreds of knives on mine without issue. Learning how to operate the machine is key with these powered sharpeners. Take it slow, practice with a crap knife first to figure out your flow.

Just because something can happen doesn't mean it will!

It's possible to do if you are careful and dip the blade in water between passes being very careful to keep it cool, but it's also extremely easy to burn the edge and it can happen fast ... far easier and faster than most people think. Thinner blades are even easier to overheat using a power sharpener.

That's why so many knife people complain about the edges of factory knives not performing well, they get burnt from belt sharpeners and you need to sharpen them a few times (not on powered equipment) to get past the burnt edges. Even slow liquid cooled belts can and do burn the edge often.

You don't have to take my word on it, you can search a little and read others opinions on the subject, there's lots out there.

 

[Maroco]

.

It's possible to do if you are careful and dip the blade in water between passes being very careful to keep it cool, but it's also extremely easy to burn the edge and it can happen fast ... far easier and faster than most people think. Thinner blades are even easier to overheat using a power sharpener.

That's why so many knife people complain about the edges of factory knives not performing well, they get burnt from belt sharpeners and you need to sharpen them a few times (not on powered equipment) to get past the burnt edges. Even slow liquid cooled belts can and do burn the edge often.

You don't have to take my word on it, you can search a little and read others opinions on the subject, there's lots out there.

Oh, I'm very aware it can and does happen. I was just suggesting that it's definitely possible to get good results with a little care and attention given to what you're doing.

They all have their places. There is a reason I bought a tormek

 

[RustyRick]

3. Small blades . I've had problem with these as well. Trying to sharpen the pen blade on a peanut is neigh impossible with the guided systems I've used. The clamps don't allow such small blades to be sharpened. Especially and smaller angles per side. Without a guided system I have to wonder if we are just going back to sharpening by hand and manually setting the angle and requires experience. Which maybe fails requirements 1. Idiot proof, 2. Simple
I did look at the Spyderco triangle (V thing) which comes so highly recommended. Might be an option for us but I haven't tried them. Keep the blade vertical and push down from what I understand. IDK.

I used the lansky for a while but small blades were an issue. When I upgraded i bought the work sharp precision when it came out. But again small blades are too small for the clamps to allow sharpening . The work smart precision PRO has a little table for small blades using magnets. I tried to build my own but it's not great. Makes me question how well the work smart precision pro table actually works in practice or if my take is poor design (The more likely option). So I actually 3D printed an angle guide and use it on the stone to give me approximate consistency. It's not idiot proof but it is simple. It's the best compromise I've found yet. I can't get it quite as sharp as a guided system but it works for the most part.

 

[kwackster]

My Tormek T7 with small knife rest and MDF burr removal wheels.
The small knife rest works most excellent for wet sharpening both flat ground large as well as small knives to specific edge angles,
Problem is that besides buying a Tormek you have to make such a small knife rest yourself, as Tormek doesn't manufacture it (yet)

 

[TheOne45]

I did look at the Spyderco triangle (V thing) which comes so highly recommended. Might be an option for us but I haven't tried them. Keep the blade vertical and push down from what I understand.

Spyderco sharpener is in fact a very clever design. Yes; all you need is to keep the blade perpendicular to the sharpeners base which holds stones and drag it along those triangular (or rounded diamond) stones. If you hold the blade vertical and your desk is tilted the result might be asymmetrical edge. So; additional bubble level on the base (to check the level) might be a smart addition.

The work smart precision PRO has a little table for small blades using magnets. I tried to build my own but it's not great.

I made myself a small magnetic table to sharpen those small blades on SAK and similar knives. I used the strongest neodymium magnets I could get in our company (cubes 12x10x8 milimeters) but the magnetic force is still small because of the small mass and contact area of those blades. I wonder how this WorkSharp small magnetic table holds those small blades.
I find it interesting some folks still don't understand you need to take in account the angle of primary bevel when sharpening on magnetic table.
For example; when sharpening my kitchen knife (full flat grind from the spine) which is 34 milimeters wide and has 2.5 milimeters thick spine I need to set my stone at 17 degree if I want to sharpen it at 15DPS.

So I actually 3D printed an angle guide and use it on the stone to give me approximate consistency. It's not idiot proof but it is simple.

The same as with magnetic table also goes for those angle guides you can put on the stones .... you need to take in account the angle of the primary bevel on your knife.
Or with other words; you won't get 20DPS when sharpening on WorkSharp field sharpener as some of those youtube influencers are explaining. The sharpening angle will depend on knife geometry.
If I want for example sharpen my ''survival'' knife at 20DPS I would need an angle guide with 15 degree angle. If I want to sharpen it at 17DPS (as I usually do) I would need an angle guide with 12 degree angle. If I would want to sharpen my Opinel #7 at 20DPS I would need an angle guide with 17.5 degree angle. Not so big differences but still something to consider if you want to sharpen your knife at exact angle you decided.

I guess there is no system out there which is totally ''fool proof''. You need at least some fundamental knowledge before using any of those systems including those guided systems with clamps. As I see some folks still get confused where to place the angle cube to zero it out. Some don't understand those angle markings on KME and WorkSharp guided systems actually don't give you exact sharpening angle. The sharpening angle will vary with the width of the blade and how far in clamps you put it.

 

[ferider]

My Tormek T7 with small knife rest and MDF burr removal wheels.
The small knife works most excellent for wet sharpening both flat ground large as well as small knives to specific edge angles,
Problem is that besides buying a Tormek you have to make such a small knife rest yourself, as Tormek doesn't manufacture it (yet)

Is the right wheel running wet ?

 

[ferider]

For not much money, you can buy small belt sanders on the big river site, that allow you to control the speed to run very slow.

Still, it's easy to burn an edge - as a rule, when you see sparks, it's too hot. Also, a belt sander will take much more steel away than you do with a stone, so I only use the above when something big has to be fixed.

One a side note, a surprising number of makers here finish their knives on a dry belt sander. Then again, after one bad experience with a bent edge, these days, I specifically look for makers that grind wet.

 

[kwackster]

Yes, the right Wheel (SB-250 Black silicon stone) is indeed running wet in water with a bit of detergent in it.
The MDF burr removal wheels use fine diamond compounds with oil.

 

[Boattale]

Never had a problem with my Ken Onion. Just run it kind of slow and not too much blade pressure on the belt. They'll definitely put a great edge on a knife. But so will lots of other stuff. I typically freehand on a 300x1000 diamond plate in a holder.