Knife Sharpness-Question for the Makers

halfserrated

halfserrated

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May 10, 2007
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This one is for the makers here. I am not speaking of anyone specific, just my experience over the last months. What are your policies/standards on knife sharpness before you will send one out the door. Do you test to see if it can shave hair, push cut paper, etc. I expect a knife to be razor sharp unless it is a chopper. If I am going to spend my money on a knife, I expect it to cut, and be sharp. Again, just my opinion.

I say this because I am tired of getting knives that I have to spend 30 minutes sharpening when I get them. I am not naming names, just a general statement. Maybe I am buying from the wrong people. I just think it is not a knife until it is sharp, before the edge, I feel it is just a blade. If I am out of line, I apologize. I just wanted some opinions from the makers. What do you do to test/assure sharpness on the knives you make.

Thanks!

Andy H.
 
i agree ..

even large choppers i put a hair shaving edge on ..

end use might not justify it.. but i like all my knives to be sharp ..
 
There's no point in sharpening a knife if it won't shave hair at least or even push cut paper.

If you're finished sharpening a knife and it won't do at least one of those things, it probably shouldn't be sold.
 
Well, I guess it all depends on your definition of sharp. There's polished edges and toothy edges and they're each good for different things. Unless otherwise specified, I put a scary polished edge on that can take the hair off of your arm, leg, or chin without trouble. I know because I test it. I also cut paper and expect all my knives to easily zip through paper at any place along the edge. And not just by cutting at the obligatory angle, but also by holding the paper by the top-side edge on one side and cutting straight down through the paper in the middle. It may not be the most versatile edge, but I've found custom knife buyers want scary sharp.

For my own shop knives, I put a very toothy 400 grit edge on that cuts through all manner of things but doesn't shave all that well.. If I need to push cut, I pull out a razor blade. For knives I carry I put on a polished very sharp edge.

--nathan
 
I went to a large hunting/fishing/art show in February and purchased a knife from that state's knifemaker's association President and it was so dull it was not even funny. I bought it merely because of the beautiful design, but it would not cut butter! It was not even what some folks call a "workin' edge". I won't even begin to mention where or who it was, but my thinking was if you are the dang state prez, your knife should damn well split hairs when you hand it to the buyer!

I want mine shaving sharp when I sell them, plain and simple.
 
Did you buy the knife as on to be used or is it a collector knife? So makers of collector type knives will just not bother to go for that very sharp edge. I have alwas believed the knife when completed should be shaving sharp no matter what kind. Frank
 
On the one hand, an excellent custom knife might come with a poor edge. You are going to have to sharpen a knife in use, you may as well start with the first use. As long as the grind geometry is right. I guess...

But on the other hand, having a sharp edge is a nice touch. Of greater importance is an even and appropriate edge angle.

To me, the primary reason for using higher hardness and sweating the HT, is to achieve a strong edge that will support a fine edge for the best obtainable cutting performance. On a particular knife, with a particular HT, I may be able to achieve good edge stability for an intended purpose at 13 deg per side. Why go through all that bother optimizing the steel, then use a 25 degree angle. Or worse yet, a totally random and inconsistent angle that happens to shave hair?

Also, I feel that a somewhat convex edge bevel cuts with less resistance and holds up better.

Many (most?) makers sharpen then strop on their grinder and it will generally shave hair.

edit:
Not to say that makers who do it this way are doing it "wrong". I'm just saying that I am unable to achieve good results with this technique

I rough on a wet grinder, then finish on oil stones to achieve better control. And it will generally tree top coarse hair (a measure of the keenness of the very cutting edge and little else) and it will also generally cleave a dropped grape (a parlor trick that does perhaps measure the geometry directly behind the very edge). I try to achieve this without excessive stropping to (hopefully) retain some toothyness.

My point being, the sharpness, and more importantly, the edge geometry, are very important in the cutting performance of a knife, and it is a nice detail just as important as the finish on the wood or the straightness of the stitching on the sheath.

Can you have a good custom knife that comes dull? Yes. But I think it is a nice touch to tune the edge before shipping.
 
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On hunting knives I sharpen until they will shave hair and slice through paper. On choppers, I generally put a convex edge, slice through paper, shave some hair, chop through some wood, & always slice through some free hanging sisal or manila rope.

I'm pretty new to this knife making arena though.....and am always looking for new ways to hone an edge.

Looking forward to see how this thread pans out.
 
I appreciate all the responses guys. I guess for me it is just a little frustrating to be all excited about a knife and then when it arrives, I have to spend time making it cut like it should have when it left the maker's shop.
 
halfserrated said:
I appreciate all the responses guys. I guess for me it is just a little frustrating to be all excited about a knife and then when it arrives, I have to spend time making it cut like it should have when it left the maker's shop.
Click to expand...

Have you spoken to the maker(s) about it? We all need honest feedback. If I sold a piece and the customer wasn't happy, I'd want to know right away. To me, the knife being dull seems like a warranty-type issue.

Communication helps before the sale, too. Whether it's an existing piece or a custom order, let the maker know you have certain standards and ask them how sharp they like to make their knives.

In my view, when we ask someone to pay twice or more than a similar off-the-shelf factory knife, we have an obligation to make that cost worthwhile, and that includes being good and sharp as delivered. As to what sharp means, I feel even a chopper, combat knife or beater should shave and slice paper reasonably well. Also, it's a lot easier for a customer to put a coarser or more obtuse edge on a keen blade, than vice versa, if it comes to that.
 
Thanks for the response James. I think my problem is, it hasn't been one maker, it has been several here of late. I have gotten relatively good on my belt grinder at sharpening, but I shouldn't have to do it to a new knife.
 
This thread reminded me of an occasion regarding a custom knife.

I received a custom from an top maker. The knife was perfect, but it did not seem very sharp to me. I contacted the maker and he told me that it was shaving sharp. It did not seem very sharp to me, however.

I decided to see if the knife would shave. Low and behold, it did shave easily! It was pretty odd that it did not seem very sharp when I checked the blade with my thumb. But, it cut paper easily and shaved the hair off of my arm easily.

I sent him a message letting him know that it was sharp and apologized, although I was nice enough when I told him that it was not as sharp as I would like it to be.

I guess that sometimes there is sharp and then there is sharp!! :thumbup:

I do sharpen my knives and know what sharp is!! Not this time, though!:eek:
 
there are 2 kinds of sharp if you ask me, if you want a razor go buy a razor if you want to dress a fresh kill and still have blade to spare then thats a different story. The finely honed blade of a razor wont last on hide, nor will a rough sharpened blade pop hairs off your arm. both have their place but in most cases it's the honed edge that Win's the buyers over. In either case sharp is sharp.
 
Though I think a slightly toothy edge is more practical, customers like to demonstrate shaving with their new custom knife (in fact, that's the closest to actual use many customers will put thier $400 knives through) so all mine leave with a shaving edge, put on by hand with a bench stone.
 
andy.....i have had the same thing happen to me many times....from TOP makers....i don't know if it's laziness....somemakers maybe don't think there knives are gonna get used or maybe they actually think it's sharp(which i doubt)......it is really sad to me.....if you pay 200 dollars or two thousand dollars you expect different things from each knife but BOTH should be a servicable tool first....ryan

p.s.-rant over!
 
I guess my purpose was to see what the different makers' opinions were on what sharp actually meant. When I say the knives weren't sharp, I mean the edges were not sharp enough to cut paper. I realize a razor won't last very long due to edge geometry. But if I can't cut paper with it when I get it, it is not sharp in my opinion. Maybe I need to readjust my definition of sharp.
 
For me what I see in alot of makers knives, not wanting to step on toes(and up until recently I had the same problem but did not realize it) the edge is not thin enough to begin with I have seen some hunters with a 50 thousands edge before they sharpen you can get a knife that thick to shave and pass the hair and paper test but the still don't cut like they are expected to you get a thinner grind you get sharpening easier, better, and faster. For me I like a toothy edge but "high grit toothy" that will fly through hair and paper!:thumbup:
 
Intersting thread - I use factory knives (Kershaw, Buck, Case XX etc.) and some are sharp enough to shave hair and some are not. I THINK my buyers want the factory edge intact but I have never thought to even ask....

I personally like a toothy edge that will still take the hair off my arm.
 
I make few but those that go to other people are always finished with a DMT to true up the edge angle and ensure consistent sharpness (hair and paper). This is a result of issues that I had with 4 of my first 5 customs- the first 2 could not be used to cut anything other than butter, with very uneven grinds, which was a very big piss off as the blades were mirror polished and I don't do mirror, so the finish was ruined when I turned them into knives (it is not a knife if it can't cut).
 
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