Knife sheeple (kneeple) ?

I think there is less prejudice against the use of a knife for self-defense in the general population than many members seem to think there is -- for adults.

In this society boys are supposed to have fistfights, boys are supposed to bully smaller boys and they're supposed to respond with their fists and that's all considered normal behavior (it isn't in all societies). We put a great deal of pressure on boys not to defend themselves from bullies with a knife; that would not be considered normal acceptable behavior and we make that very clear to them.

The behavioral standards for adults are different. Adults are not supposed to bully smaller adults; that is not considered acceptable or harmless or normal. There is a whole different paradigm about attacks on adults. If a boy attacks a smaller boy that's considered a relatively acceptable behavior and we as a society don't want that bully to get stabbed; we would rather see the smaller boy get beat up than see the bully get killed or maimed -- but we don't have that protective attitude toward adult rapists and murderers.

Most of my students are women but some are men. They're all adults. None of them have any moral objection to the idea of defending themselves with a knife nor do they have any overwhelming fear that our society will see them as immoral or criminal and inflict worse damage than the rapists and murderers would if they didn't defend themselves.... Obviously my students are a biased sample of the general population, but the attitude they and I perceive in the general population when we talk about our training is not usually negative.

I encourage my students to carry both guns and knives; they each have their own tactical advantages. I see generally less fear and loathing of knives than of guns. Even the least knowledgeable do not seem to suffer from the delusion that knives accidentally stab their owners or children or innocent bystanders. Most of them seem to understand that knife defense is not necessarily lethal defense even before I explain that to them, too. Everyone uses knives every day if only at the table, and no one is inspired with fear at the mere sight of a knife; they do not imagine it will stab them all by itself ... they don't feel it's dangerous merely to be in the vicinity of a knife or to keep one in the house....

Sometimes they suffer from the delusion an attacker could take their knife and use it against them, but it only takes a minute to prove that propaganda is nonsense. The propaganda that 12 random citizens would be likely to decide to inflict some worse penalty than being raped, tortured, and murdered upon them for cutting an attacker's hand is perhaps somewhat more difficult to free them from, but not impossible in most cases....

-Cougar :{)
 
1. I carry a knife every day. I think most of you do too. I would be offended if someone called my knife a weapon. I have a blade or two that could be called a weapon, and know of others I wouldn't mind having. I practice swordfighting on a regular basis, armor and all, and know how to use a bladed weapon.

My pocketknife is not a weapon. I use it daily for many things that have nothing to do with cutting flesh, and occasionally for slicing a piece of chicken, or a nice steak.


2. If I ever have the spare income to afford a desk full of knives I won't use, I will be more than happy to give you my take on their qualities...
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3. I would not, _ever_, want you to break one of my knives to find out how good it works. I have done, and am meagerly trained in, destructive testing. (I knew strengths lab was good for something!) I appreciate the knowledge gained from quality testing, and understand that some testing results in a broken product. (Much like slicing the apple. Maybe a Gala would respond better to a BM710 than the Red Delicious did. but you'll have to cut it up to find out...)


Stryver
 
Stryver,

You missed my point (or I wasn't clear
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).

1. I am not into calling somebody's knife this or that. I'm into people's freedom in calling their knives whatever they want.

People may call my knives tools or weapons, I don't care. I am not offended as long as they don't say that my knives suck.
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2. I do have some knives that I don't use. I don't "school" people about field performance of those models though. Didn't say it's bad to sit knives on a shelf. Knives look nice on a shelf. Unused knives look most of the time even nicer
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.

3. I appreciate destructive tests. Didn't say you or anyone else should have their knives broken (especially by me).
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I just read my original post again. Didn't really see what did you try to relate to. Or is my English that bad?
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Kris
 
The problem with being a "youngster" is that exact "a knife is a hoodlum weapon" idea. I can't carry a knife at school becasue it is a weapon, but I can carry metal pens, heavy book bags, and (if I were a baseball player) could have a large piece of very swingable aluminum in my possession. This is because people view knives as weapons. I don't remind people that I, even as a seventeen year old, could easily kill another person with many everyday objects, or with my bare hands. People are often afraid only because they are not used to being around knives.

And, as I recently found out, people will think you are either dangerous or silly if you carry a knife "for protection". Most people don't know about the seven yard range of advantage that a knigfe holds on handguns, nor do they understand that you can't always just "back down." Some peopl want to spill your blood, but I plan to fight to they very end.

Much the same way that "assault weapons", ablisongs and suto-knives were banned because of their inherent dangerousness, some people would take away most knives. We need to watch ho we present ourselves to those who are ignorant of the truth, but make a good first impression and then try to educate them.

And when someone asks if "that is a beeper", just say no, but don't flip out your Sifu in their face. Bad impression
 
I think our society difinatly see us (people who carry knives) as a potential threat. Wheather we are or not is irrelivant, this is how we are seen i think we would be best to change our situation from a very small internal view by alowing people to see us as we are we can change their opinions concerning "knives as weapons"

i see knives as tools, and as with most tools in the hands of a criminal they can be bad. But in the hands of the other 99% of us they just make the day a bit easer to get through.

Concerning destructive testing, i think the more the better. i can understand collecting knives just as one would collect art but as for the rest of the peices that do not fall into those that would be called art, test them very hard simply because i think this is one way we can see whitch companies or custom manufacturers are giving you a product you COULD rely on if it ever came to it.
I dont claim to be right, i just believe everything i say
 
Welcome to the Forums Nero!

.... Hey, look, we've got another one
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....


I think our society difinatly see us (people who carry knives) as a potential threat.
Wheather we are or not is irrelivant, this is how we are seen i think we would be best to change our situation from a very small internal view by alowing people to see us as we are we can change their opinions concerning "knives as weapons" in sense that not a weapon should be harmless
i see knives as tools, and as with most tools in the hands of a criminal they can be bad. But in the hands of the other 99% of us they just make the day a bit easer to get through.
Society thinks in "stereotypes." Things obviously not considered by society as weapons are harmless by their "nature". A rubber ducky, a tomato, a flower... Those are pretty useless for harming anyone.

Another group would be things that people cannot live without, like cars. You can easily kill somebody by a car but so many use them "normally." You can crush somebody's head with a chair. But who would do that? Only a very bad person! The same is true in case of a knife - only a crook would use it to harm others. But by carrying one you are being assigned a sticker of "possibly bad person".

Hold a hammer and they'll think you are going to do some work. Hold a knife AND a hammer and they'll think that you are going to hit them and stab them.

I think that "convincing" people that "knives are tools" misses the boat. All we'll get is recognition that we are bad people carrying tools as this approach by itself does not change the "sticker."
I'd rather be a normal person carrying a knife.

Now, of course the fact that knives are useful in everyday life is one of arguments in this campaign. Byt applying it without a consideration for both sides feelings makes it a superficial patch over a deeper problem.

Kris
 
In regards to the tool line of thought, in some places it is not legal to carry a blade for self-defence reasons - so you don't have much of a choice.

The no experience comments issue is very serious - as there is a significant possibility of misinformation. If people would state this openly as Cougar comments it would be ok, but often they do not. You frequently see "XXX is a really ZZZ blade, I like mine a lot." . But if you ask them what this means, you might be in for a surprise as to what they are using ZZZ to represent. People should be specific about performance issues and be more responsible about what they write, there are people reading it and making blade choices.

High stress testing - look at the people who are complaining and the type of knives they are using. The number one reason I have seen is they are using inferior blades and do not like the fact that there is work that clearly illustrates it. As for the comment about it being futile to do such work on a $1500 knife, I was recently loaned a knife that is more expensive than that and asked to take it to failure in certain respects.

-Cliff

[This message has been edited by Cliff Stamp (edited 04-28-2000).]
 
Right, if people actually said, "I've had a Brand X knife in my humidity-controlled sock drawer for ten years and it hasn't broken in all that time," that wouldn't mislead anyone. The problem is they don't say that; they say, "I've been using a Brand X knife for ten years," -- often they even say something like, "using it hard," or "putting it to heavy use on frequent camping trips" ... they leave it to us to guess what they mean by "heavy use" ... if they freak out at the very idea of splitting wood with a knife, though, that's a clue....

In the absence of explanation, I tend to assume "heavy use" means he opened an aluminum can with it once, "great edgeholding" means better than the other knife he owns (which has "surgical stainless" stamped on the tang), "razor sharp" means the edge can rip through a cardboard box with less effort than the spine can, "solid lockup" means he pressed on it with more force than would be needed to fold a slip-joint and it didn't fold, and "an excellent choice for self-defense" means it has a bizarre blade profile that makes it impractical for just about any purpose, especially defense, but the strangeness of it makes him think it looks scary.

-Cougar :{)
 
You know how dumb the average man is? Well by definition, half of 'em are dumber than that!

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Brandon

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"You should never never doubt what nobody is sure about..."
 
Cougar :

"razor sharp" means the edge can rip through a cardboard box with less effort than the spine can

I can go one better than that - I showed a couple Barteaux machetes to a friend awhile ago and commented that the edges were very poor and in need of serious work. He walked over to the woodpile and chopped the blade into the edge of an end of a piece of fresh cut pine. He then commented "It looks good to me." I then asked him to try it with the spine - it went it with about similar ease.

Yesterday I was throwing some knives with my brother as he had worked out a semi-smooth underarm throw. We were using an old door as a target and the blades were sinking in to the hilts. One of his friends happened by and commented that the blades had excellent penetration, my brother then took up a table leg and stabbed it through the door.

There are a lot of knife companies advertizing their blades with things that tend to look impressive if you have never done them - however without a benchmark it is next to impossible to guage a blades performance. It is quite possible and very probable that any blade could do the things that theirs are being used to do.

-Cliff
 
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