Are brick and mortar knife shops a thing of the past? there are no full line cutlery retailers with 75 miles of where I live. The population density is pretty good. Very outdoors oriented area. I am toying with the idea of opening a shop. have no background in retailing and am avid about blades but relatively new to collecting and enjoying. Is this a nutty idea? What do people think?
Knife shops
- Thread starter kl101
- Start date
- Joined
- Mar 10, 2000
- Messages
- 777
Where do you live? What are the laws like there? You know that most of your money will come from cheaper knives with a good mark up. When I have asked why more of the B & M stores around here do not carry higher end stuff the simple answer is that it does not move as well as the everyday SAK and Buck knives. Not that that is a bad thing, just a reality thing.
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- Sep 21, 1999
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Hiya KL,
I see that you're new here so I'ma gonna mess with your post. Since you're new, I feel as if I can pick on you and there's nothing you can do about it.
I do this to all new members who haven't sent me $638.23 in Moderator Protection Fees.
Please email the cash to me at: vampiregerbil@aol.com
Thank you.
Now for the messing part...
I'm moving this over to the General Discussion Forum as you're more likely to get answers there. This here Community Forum is meant for off-topic posts, meaning that most any topic can be discussed here that doesn't concern knifes and knifedom.
Impatiently awaiting all that cash,
I remain,
VG
I see that you're new here so I'ma gonna mess with your post. Since you're new, I feel as if I can pick on you and there's nothing you can do about it.
I do this to all new members who haven't sent me $638.23 in Moderator Protection Fees.
Please email the cash to me at: vampiregerbil@aol.com
Thank you.
Now for the messing part...
I'm moving this over to the General Discussion Forum as you're more likely to get answers there. This here Community Forum is meant for off-topic posts, meaning that most any topic can be discussed here that doesn't concern knifes and knifedom.
Impatiently awaiting all that cash,
I remain,
VG
If you listen to people like Bruce Williams on the radio, who has run a show about finance and money for a long time, the answer would be no. He always says, don't go into a business yourself until you understand that line of work, completely and have worked in it for while employed by someone else. People are only too helpful in renting you a building, selling you a ton of merchandise, and then letting you sink as the market is just not there. Go in a large hunting/sporting goods type store and see what they stock. That's what people tend to buy. Jazzy looking, cheaply made, knives. Truth be told many use them so little, they never know the difference. I should add, that I live in a greater metro area of 1 million people. The only dedicated knife shop (sold safes as well) folded a couple years ago. One of two major gun shops has a pretty nice display of high quality gear, like Chris Reeve, spyderco, benchmade, a few microtech, cold steel, Al Mar, Marbles etc. They do move stock, as does one small camping adventure store, with a slightly less broad selection. The rest of the stores are outdoor related and only sell buck, mulit tools, and Swiss Army Knives. My advice, is dont do it until you know your market and the industry backwards and forwards.
- Joined
- Apr 4, 2001
- Messages
- 118
Where in the Northeast?
I opened a knife store in a local mall almost a year and a half ago. I now own 2 with the third as a possibility this Fall. I had over 10 years experience selling cheap knives and swords at ren-faires, plus a very good general knife knowledge, and I had plenty of sources.
Owning a brick and morter store is a totally different animal! I had no knowledge of empolyee issues, insurance, regulations, etc. I have had to learn fast. If you decide to do this, read everything you can about operating a business, management, sales, etc. Talk extensively to the Small Business Administration, and SCORE. Find a good bookkeeper, and shop around for a small business friendly bank. Find out what the regulations are in your area. Don't just rely on the local police to tell you. Look up the laws yourself. Talk to the State Attorney Generals Office (they are the ones most likely to interpret the laws against you).
Then if you are still game, do some market testing. Check out that store 75 miles away. What do they sell? Who from your area shops there? Think about what you feel they do right and what you would do differently. Check out the flea markets in the area. Maybe set up at a few and see what sells. If there are gun and knife shows in the area check them out as well.
If you still think its a workable idea, look around for possible locations. There is a reason most brick and morter stores are located in malls -- people traffic! I figured out that the cost of rent in a mall well made up for all of the extra advertising costs I would have to pay to produce that kind of people traffic in any other location. If you decide to open in a mall check out the regulations very closely. Some malls are just not interested in a knife store. Figure out what you need to do to keep the mall itself safe from those purchasing from you. (There are plenty of stupid adult children who will buy a knife from you and take it to the common area of the mall and wave it around to show all their friends.)
Plan carefully an opening budget, an operating budget, how long it will be before you can expect to make a profit, how you will afford the store until it does make a profit, etc. How many employees you will need? How much you will pay them, etc.
Talk to suppliers (both manufacturers, and distributers) about their pricing, minimum orders, etc. Figure out what other items you can sell that will go well with knifes. How will the store look? Where will you get your displays? Will you need loans?, etc., etc.
I know this may sound difficult, but doing your research first, will save many headaches, grey hairs, and sleepless nights later.
There are plenty of people out there who will help. I will be happy to give you any help I can. Email me if you want and we can talk more.
Pam
I opened a knife store in a local mall almost a year and a half ago. I now own 2 with the third as a possibility this Fall. I had over 10 years experience selling cheap knives and swords at ren-faires, plus a very good general knife knowledge, and I had plenty of sources.
Owning a brick and morter store is a totally different animal! I had no knowledge of empolyee issues, insurance, regulations, etc. I have had to learn fast. If you decide to do this, read everything you can about operating a business, management, sales, etc. Talk extensively to the Small Business Administration, and SCORE. Find a good bookkeeper, and shop around for a small business friendly bank. Find out what the regulations are in your area. Don't just rely on the local police to tell you. Look up the laws yourself. Talk to the State Attorney Generals Office (they are the ones most likely to interpret the laws against you).
Then if you are still game, do some market testing. Check out that store 75 miles away. What do they sell? Who from your area shops there? Think about what you feel they do right and what you would do differently. Check out the flea markets in the area. Maybe set up at a few and see what sells. If there are gun and knife shows in the area check them out as well.
If you still think its a workable idea, look around for possible locations. There is a reason most brick and morter stores are located in malls -- people traffic! I figured out that the cost of rent in a mall well made up for all of the extra advertising costs I would have to pay to produce that kind of people traffic in any other location. If you decide to open in a mall check out the regulations very closely. Some malls are just not interested in a knife store. Figure out what you need to do to keep the mall itself safe from those purchasing from you. (There are plenty of stupid adult children who will buy a knife from you and take it to the common area of the mall and wave it around to show all their friends.)
Plan carefully an opening budget, an operating budget, how long it will be before you can expect to make a profit, how you will afford the store until it does make a profit, etc. How many employees you will need? How much you will pay them, etc.
Talk to suppliers (both manufacturers, and distributers) about their pricing, minimum orders, etc. Figure out what other items you can sell that will go well with knifes. How will the store look? Where will you get your displays? Will you need loans?, etc., etc.
I know this may sound difficult, but doing your research first, will save many headaches, grey hairs, and sleepless nights later.
There are plenty of people out there who will help. I will be happy to give you any help I can. Email me if you want and we can talk more.
Pam
Mike has a bunch of really good point about business in general.
That is exactly what a knife store would be........business in general.
I got curious myself about this very topic in 1998 when I tried to find
my wife really good kitchen knives in our area. After a search I found
just one store that mediodre quality stuff and none that sold any quality
cutlery of any type at all. The Targets,Wal-marts, etc. all had stuff for the
masses. The hunting, camping, boating,etc. all had the mainstream products.
Which is to say not much. Kinda ticked me off for a awhile until I discovered
that due to lack consumer education there WAS no demand.
How many boy & girls carry a simple pocket knife anymore. Close to zero.
That means whole generations will grow up never understanding what a knife
is really all about . Never understand how often a knife is needed as a tool in daily
life much less carry one to school for any reason.
I did discover this though......
Once consumer education starts folks begain to ask where can I buy a GOOD knife?
What kind, brand do I recommend? They started to depend on me to help them decide
what to buy and how much to spend. THE MARKET WAS THERE.......WAITING.
So just for fun I found a wholesaler that would sell small lots for cash and I went into
"business". I was flat buried by the demand.........for awhile. I learned that if you do a
good job of educating your consumers they will remember you and come back when they
need another knife. If you do a good honest job of selling them the correct knife for their
need they won't need to come back often. Which sets up another delemmia....repeat business.
To be mildly sucessful I have to constantly expand my market outside of my immediate area.
The internet in one good way to do that. But I think the one sin ALL knife makers are very
guilty of is it has to be none of them take the education to the consumer no matter what they
read, watch or do.
Can a person make good money selling knives? Sure , but like any buiness getting into the
top percent of your business is the tough part. For myself , I'll just settle for the fun I have
helping other people make better purchase for themselves.
That is exactly what a knife store would be........business in general.
I got curious myself about this very topic in 1998 when I tried to find
my wife really good kitchen knives in our area. After a search I found
just one store that mediodre quality stuff and none that sold any quality
cutlery of any type at all. The Targets,Wal-marts, etc. all had stuff for the
masses. The hunting, camping, boating,etc. all had the mainstream products.
Which is to say not much. Kinda ticked me off for a awhile until I discovered
that due to lack consumer education there WAS no demand.
How many boy & girls carry a simple pocket knife anymore. Close to zero.
That means whole generations will grow up never understanding what a knife
is really all about . Never understand how often a knife is needed as a tool in daily
life much less carry one to school for any reason.
I did discover this though......
Once consumer education starts folks begain to ask where can I buy a GOOD knife?
What kind, brand do I recommend? They started to depend on me to help them decide
what to buy and how much to spend. THE MARKET WAS THERE.......WAITING.
So just for fun I found a wholesaler that would sell small lots for cash and I went into
"business". I was flat buried by the demand.........for awhile. I learned that if you do a
good job of educating your consumers they will remember you and come back when they
need another knife. If you do a good honest job of selling them the correct knife for their
need they won't need to come back often. Which sets up another delemmia....repeat business.
To be mildly sucessful I have to constantly expand my market outside of my immediate area.
The internet in one good way to do that. But I think the one sin ALL knife makers are very
guilty of is it has to be none of them take the education to the consumer no matter what they
read, watch or do.
Can a person make good money selling knives? Sure , but like any buiness getting into the
top percent of your business is the tough part. For myself , I'll just settle for the fun I have
helping other people make better purchase for themselves.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2000
- Messages
- 3,140
Having worked in retail stores 14 years before taking my cuurent position as a manufacturer's rep and distributor of high end audio video gear I'd like to offer my opinion.
First a bit of background: I sell high end surround sound and Hifi stuff. These are luxury goods only purchased by aprox 2% of the population who actually care about better sound and bigger, sharper pictures and have the disposable income to spend between 10K and a quarter mil on their home entertainment system. I've held every position from plain old floor salesperson to buyer, installer, manager and even part owner, in hifi stores from national chains to single outlet salons. These days the company I work for does wholesale selling to almost every high end hifi shop in the southwest. The company I work for specializes in the high end stuff because that's what we like. Our products would be like selling Chris Reeves, Microtech and AlMar. While it's a small niche in the market, if approached correctly, there's enough business done with that 2% of the populace that we (and our vendors and retailers) can make a nice living.
A knife store is much like the kind of hifi salons I sell to and worked in for so many years. You're a specialty dealer, selling expensive products to those who care.
We have a joke in my business: Want to make a million dollars in the hifi biz? Start with two million and open a store. Our industry, like the knife industry is mostly run by guys (very much a boy's club atmosphere) who got into it because it was a hobby. It is driven by passion for things most people just don't care about or understand. Being enthustiatic and knowledgable is different than being a good business person and retailer.
When someone comes to me and say's, "hey, I just opened a hifi store and want to purchase XYZ brand of products from you for resale", my response is, good for you! Now answer a few questions for me:
1) How much experience do you have in this industry?
2) How much money do you have in reserve to fund this project, because retail stores, especially small ones with small ad budgets usually take a couple years to become profitable.
3) Where's your location? As the gentleman above noted, traffic will drive your retail business, whether walk by as in a mall setting or drive by as in a prime street corner location.
If I get good answers to all these quiestions, then we talk some more.
You will also find that you might not be able to sell anything you want. Some suppliers have policies that allow just about anyone to sell their stuff, where others want you to make certain minimum orders, be x number of miles from the next store that sells their stuff etc..
Remember that sales is a numbers thing. The more people exposed to your stuff, the more that will buy, but exposure costs money. Also consider the percentage of profit. Most retail stores need to make an average of 40% profit to keep the lights on and the employees fed. You will sometimes have to take short profit margins to move out discontinued or slow selling stuff and will occasionally make a fat sale because of some deal you got from the supplier, but after 20 years, my opinion is that about 40% is what you need. Unless you do huge volume, you can't sell cheap and stay in business long.
The low end stuff will pay the bills, the high end stuff will be there for the occasional big sale, your ego and the "Credibility Factor"(where customer thinks,"Wow, if they have stuff like TNT's for sale they must know what they're doing, I guess I'll buy that Benchmade they recommended, even though I never thought I'd spend over $100.00 on a pocket knife").
Sorry to ramble, but I felt well qualified to comment on this topic. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about the retail experience.
jmx
First a bit of background: I sell high end surround sound and Hifi stuff. These are luxury goods only purchased by aprox 2% of the population who actually care about better sound and bigger, sharper pictures and have the disposable income to spend between 10K and a quarter mil on their home entertainment system. I've held every position from plain old floor salesperson to buyer, installer, manager and even part owner, in hifi stores from national chains to single outlet salons. These days the company I work for does wholesale selling to almost every high end hifi shop in the southwest. The company I work for specializes in the high end stuff because that's what we like. Our products would be like selling Chris Reeves, Microtech and AlMar. While it's a small niche in the market, if approached correctly, there's enough business done with that 2% of the populace that we (and our vendors and retailers) can make a nice living.
A knife store is much like the kind of hifi salons I sell to and worked in for so many years. You're a specialty dealer, selling expensive products to those who care.
We have a joke in my business: Want to make a million dollars in the hifi biz? Start with two million and open a store. Our industry, like the knife industry is mostly run by guys (very much a boy's club atmosphere) who got into it because it was a hobby. It is driven by passion for things most people just don't care about or understand. Being enthustiatic and knowledgable is different than being a good business person and retailer.
When someone comes to me and say's, "hey, I just opened a hifi store and want to purchase XYZ brand of products from you for resale", my response is, good for you! Now answer a few questions for me:
1) How much experience do you have in this industry?
2) How much money do you have in reserve to fund this project, because retail stores, especially small ones with small ad budgets usually take a couple years to become profitable.
3) Where's your location? As the gentleman above noted, traffic will drive your retail business, whether walk by as in a mall setting or drive by as in a prime street corner location.
If I get good answers to all these quiestions, then we talk some more.
You will also find that you might not be able to sell anything you want. Some suppliers have policies that allow just about anyone to sell their stuff, where others want you to make certain minimum orders, be x number of miles from the next store that sells their stuff etc..
Remember that sales is a numbers thing. The more people exposed to your stuff, the more that will buy, but exposure costs money. Also consider the percentage of profit. Most retail stores need to make an average of 40% profit to keep the lights on and the employees fed. You will sometimes have to take short profit margins to move out discontinued or slow selling stuff and will occasionally make a fat sale because of some deal you got from the supplier, but after 20 years, my opinion is that about 40% is what you need. Unless you do huge volume, you can't sell cheap and stay in business long.
The low end stuff will pay the bills, the high end stuff will be there for the occasional big sale, your ego and the "Credibility Factor"(where customer thinks,"Wow, if they have stuff like TNT's for sale they must know what they're doing, I guess I'll buy that Benchmade they recommended, even though I never thought I'd spend over $100.00 on a pocket knife").
Sorry to ramble, but I felt well qualified to comment on this topic. I'd be happy to answer any questions you have about the retail experience.
jmx
Thanks for the great stuff. My number one question has been answered, (I think). That is a brick and mortar knife shop is not a complete non-starter. Certainly all the challenges of any new retail venture will be present, but the business of selling quality cutlery hasn't moved completley to the Internet. So since I have that peice of the picture more clarified, I will start doing some real homework on this. I'll let you know hoe things proceed. Additional comments will be greatly appreciated.
- Joined
- May 18, 2000
- Messages
- 3,743
Quality knives are available in the knife stores, even out here. Even at our swap meet, there is a stand with high quality knives, MT, MOD, Benchmade, SOG, Kershaw, etc. But, the prices are higher than the internet prices. Bottom line, you can get a better price on the net.
yes.
but this doesn't mean you should not try.
like alchemy said you have to plan a budget. You have to make a business-plan and stick to it. You are planing a Break-Even-Point for your hole endeavor, and if you don't reach it it time, then it's time to take action;quit, not take another loan.
Maybe you can make both, a shop in actual reality and a shop in virtual reality.
all the best.
Greetings
red