Knife supply Kit knives (part rant part food for thought)

G

G2k

Joined
Oct 21, 2012
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Hi all. I recently decided to try a few kit knives from 2 independent knife supply houses. I bought a delta 5 and an SG-4 from knife kits dot com and a sparing bowie from usa knifemaker. The sparing bowie hasn't arrived yet.

One of the trends I'm seeing in the kit knives I've looked at is blade thickness. IF it's posted at all, it is usually TOO THIN. The SG-4 is 3/16" thick, this is a good thickness for any fixed blade in the 4-7 inch range. I think it will work out well.

The Delta 5 I got is a joke. It has a nice scar on the handguard thats deep enough so I can't file it out. It's not really worth sending it back as the cost of the kit plus shipping (to me) plus re-shipping (to them) adds to a kit thats already TOO expensive for what it is. Nobody will give me $150-$200 for a knife/sheath/sharpener package thats worth $40.00,especially if the knife has a nice divitt between the blade guard and bolster.

I have seen COUNTLESS fixed blades with 8-10 inch blades that are between 5/32- 3/16 thick. This is way too thin.

People, especially Americans, want thick, beefy blades. A quick look at Cold Steel Knives will verify this. Cold Steel over builds Their stuff and charges accordingly. Other than that, Cold Steel isn't giving you anything special. Some of their stuff breaks too, but they still do VERY well financially.

If these knife supply houses offered me a blade of 8-10 inches, with a 4.5" tang, 1/4"-5/16" thick, 440C or 5160, hardened/tempered/cryo-tempered for $100.00 I would buy that. It would become a $250.00 knife that one could beat the snot out of and it would not fail. The supplier is making a little money, I'm making a little money, and the end user is getting a hell of a knife. EVERYBODY wins.

I do understand that many knives circa 1860 have blades that are between 3-4mm thick, but this is 2013 not 1860. There are NOT thousands and thousands of blades around from 1860 either...maybe due to the blades being too thin and breaking? Humans always TRY to use a tool in a proper way, but eventually said tool will be "abused". It will be used as a prybar, a ladder, a shooting rest, shovel/paddle, pot holder, hammer, etc. etc.

I'm glad places like knifekitsdotcom exist. I'm glad they sell kit knives. I'm not going to slam them for the crappy delta 5 I got because lemons DO happen. However I would love to see the knife supply houses have a "line" of knives that are 2-3 times the cost of their current offerings, but have a much more defined pedigree.

Said pedigree should include: usA steel blanks, shaped in usA, heat treated/tempered/cryo tempered in usA, 440c, 5160 (from usA). Blade length/style can be whatever, BUT, thickness as follows: 3-7 inch length is 3/16"; 7.1-9" is 1/4"; and 9.1-14 is 5/16". Thank you all for taking the time to read my rant post. Comment/reply if you like.

To see the knives I've made check out my youtube video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Oni0CVffpJw
 
I looked up some Cold Steel specs. The new Marauder, with a 9 inch blade, is .19 inch thick. That's a bit less than your 1/4'' minimum. Their Boar Hunter, with an 8.75 inch blade is the same thickness. Apparently they don't overbuild everything? Or maybe it's just that 1/4 inch is not necessary, and never has been. As for why there aren't "thousands and thousands" of blades from 1860 around, I'd hazard a guess that corrosion is a bigger factor than breakage.
 
Unsure if this is a Cold Steel commercial, a self-promotion of kit-knife-making, a rant about the lack of sharpened pry-bars out there, or what...

In all seriousness, OP what do you personally do with knives that happen to be 1/4" or thicker?
 
EZ Bake said:
Unsure if this is a Cold Steel commercial, a self-promotion of kit-knife-making, a rant about the lack of sharpened pry-bars out there, or what...

In all seriousness, OP what do you personally do with knives that happen to be 1/4" or thicker?
Click to expand...

This is what the OP said:

It will be used as a prybar, a ladder, a shooting rest, shovel/paddle, pot holder, hammer, etc. etc.
Click to expand...

Yeah this honestly sounds weird to be honest. Half advertisement half I am not sure.
 
Luis G. said:
This is what the OP said:
Click to expand...

Yeah, but here it is in context:

Humans always TRY to use a tool in a proper way, but eventually said tool will be "abused". It will be used as a prybar, a ladder, a shooting rest, shovel/paddle, pot holder, hammer, etc. etc.
Click to expand...

I'm curious as to how he personally uses (or abuses) his knives. There seems to be this stigma out there that everyone needs this (insert latest/greatest feature/specification/brand/etc.) and the Internet does wonders to help spread this.

At the end of the day, even I have fallen prey to hype and have owned more than a few sharpened prybars (so I'm definitely not pointing fingers here). I have, however started using my tools properly and have gotten rid of almost all of my huge overly thick fixed-blades and am down to just a Muleteam and an Izula. For larger stuff, I've got a small hatchet and a machete.

I'm not saying everyone has to have the same reasons for buying the same stuff, but I do find that just asking the question "What do you use your XYZ for?" often helps to get to the bottom of "Everybody says" or "I legitimately use". It's just for my own morbid curiosity...
 
Until I got an American Lawman at the suggestion of a maker here on the forums, I was just as happy as anyone to see Thompson/Cold Steel bashing.

I think this guy just likes the sharpened prybar style knives. I went to their site and looked over their catalog, and they have several knives that are built as he describes, all in the one foot or larger category. Didn't know that. That being said, I don't think this is a sneaky, subversive ad for CS.

Still don't know why someone would need a knife like he describes. I certainly don't, but to each their own. But with about 75 folders, no one seems to understand why I still need more of those, either.

I have seen many examples of heavily built knives from way back when, but nothing over about 3/16" for a really large bowie style resides in the local cowboy/rancher museum, or at the Institute of Texan Cultures. In the old days, folks used their knives primarily as cutting instruments, and didn't use them as hammers, splitting wedges, heavy brush choppers, etc., unless they needed to. Around the farm/ranch, they usually had the right tool around to do their daily chores, and the "survival" or possible combat aspect most focus on these days when buying a large knife didn't exist. Every day was survival.

Robert
 
G2k said:
People, especially Americans, want thick, beefy blades.
Click to expand...

I do? I had no idea!

Please...don't speak for everyone.



G2k said:
If these knife supply houses offered me a blade of 8-10 inches, with a 4.5" tang, 1/4"-5/16" thick, 440C or 5160, hardened/tempered/cryo-tempered for $100.00 I would buy that. It would become a $250.00 knife that one could beat the snot out of and it would not fail. The supplier is making a little money, I'm making a little money, and the end user is getting a hell of a knife. EVERYBODY wins.
Click to expand...

Are you selling these kit knives that you assemble? :confused:

G2k said:
I do understand that many knives circa 1860 have blades that are between 3-4mm thick, but this is 2013 not 1860. There are NOT thousands and thousands of blades around from 1860 either...maybe due to the blades being too thin and breaking?
Click to expand...

Maybe how about this for a reason why there aren't many of thos around...They would be 150 years old?
 
How about we turn this around?

How many of the Spyderco Dragonflies, the BM Minigrips, the Buck 112's, not to mention all the kitchenware, will be around in 150 years? Given the look of some of the 50-year old knives that have been used and sharpened, we'd be looking at pretty worn blades after all that time.

On the bright side, what better way to really try out the "Lifetime" warranties?
 
So....assembling pieces You purchased from a knife kit makes you a knife maker? And you would charge what I've seen true made/custom pieces for?

I bet you think strippers actually like you too......


Thanks for the laugh!
 
Yes, Cold Steel doesn't over build everything. The trailmaster and recon scout is what I was refering to. The specs listed are "my" specs. That doesn't necessarily make them "the" specs to have, more just what I would feel comfortable with.
 
Luis G. said:
This is what the OP said:



Yeah this honestly sounds weird to be honest. Half advertisement half I am not sure.
Click to expand...

No advertisement intended. I am currently making knives from old, high quality files.

I give them away as gifts after some testing.

In my experience as a knife user, I have noticed that thicker,beefier knives seem to hold up better when asked to do something "moderately" abusive.

There are youtube videos of Cold Steel knives failing in what MANY consider "non abusive use".

It's not my intention to start a thread war, just some food for thought and a "little" ranting about why there are so few "big" "thick" "obnoxiously beefy" blades.
 
EZ Bake said:
Yeah, but here it is in context:



I'm curious as to how he personally uses (or abuses) his knives. There seems to be this stigma out there that everyone needs this (insert latest/greatest feature/specification/brand/etc.) and the Internet does wonders to help spread this.

At the end of the day, even I have fallen prey to hype and have owned more than a few sharpened prybars (so I'm definitely not pointing fingers here). I have, however started using my tools properly and have gotten rid of almost all of my huge overly thick fixed-blades and am down to just a Muleteam and an Izula. For larger stuff, I've got a small hatchet and a machete.

I'm not saying everyone has to have the same reasons for buying the same stuff, but I do find that just asking the question "What do you use your XYZ for?" often helps to get to the bottom of "Everybody says" or "I legitimately use". It's just for my own morbid curiosity...
Click to expand...
I personally try to keep the "abuse" to a minimum. I do feel like it's NOT abuse to baton with a fixed blade knife. I use my knives as everything from letter openers to prybars (rarely). I guess what I'm getting at is that many tasks can be done with a small knife as well as a large knife but there are instances where a big knife can do more. It IS GOOD that kit knives are geared to the "average" user who intends on doing "normal" stuff with their knife. I would just like to see some more offerings that are inclined to the "go big or go home" school of thought.
 
midnight flyer said:
Until I got an American Lawman at the suggestion of a maker here on the forums, I was just as happy as anyone to see Thompson/Cold Steel bashing.

I think this guy just likes the sharpened prybar style knives. I went to their site and looked over their catalog, and they have several knives that are built as he describes, all in the one foot or larger category. Didn't know that. That being said, I don't think this is a sneaky, subversive ad for CS.

Still don't know why someone would need a knife like he describes. I certainly don't, but to each their own. But with about 75 folders, no one seems to understand why I still need more of those, either.

I have seen many examples of heavily built knives from way back when, but nothing over about 3/16" for a really large bowie style resides in the local cowboy/rancher museum, or at the Institute of Texan Cultures. In the old days, folks used their knives primarily as cutting instruments, and didn't use them as hammers, splitting wedges, heavy brush choppers, etc., unless they needed to. Around the farm/ranch, they usually had the right tool around to do their daily chores, and the "survival" or possible combat aspect most focus on these days when buying a large knife didn't exist. Every day was survival.

Robert
Click to expand...
Yes, exactly. It isn't that ALL knives with a 6" blade or more that are only 3/16 thick SUCK.

Many great knives have 3/16 thick blades (remember the Blackjack randall clones), they were beautiful, fuctional and just nice, at a decent price too.

I'm saying since we have knives to fit EVERY taste, it would be nice to have a few "kits" that fit that particular "taste". I do love big knives, not to the exclusion of smaller/smallish knives though. my daily driver fixed blade has a 6" blade thats .165 thick, I love THAT knife because I made it, but I wouldn't want ONLY it if I was gonna hike Yosemiti.

I guess it's like guns, .22's are great for plinking but can still kill, ar-15's are great for longer range and can kill too, but damn a .50 BMG Barrett is simply AWESOME.
 
Indeed, good point. However if we talk corrosion, a bigger knife always out lasts a smaller one due to surface area/size....unless acid is involved...lol
 
dude, if 1/4" knives is what you like then cool. however, you make it seem like it should be common sense to have the same opinion. I've never owned a knife over 1/8" and I've never had one break. I think any average cutlery steel properly h.t. and given a proper temper would be fairly difficult to break. I've chipped out edges before under heavy use but that's no big deal. If you want unbreakable then get your blanks spring tempered.
 
Gravelface said:
So....assembling pieces You purchased from a knife kit makes you a knife maker? And you would charge what I've seen true made/custom pieces for?

I bet you think strippers actually like you too......


Thanks for the laugh!
Click to expand...
I don't frequent the company of strippers.

My price reasoning is this: by the time I buy and pay for shipping, re-ship back to them (at my expense), recieve the new blade and make it, sheath it, add a sharpener so that the customer is "ready to go" I would have to get $150-200 for it.

If it's not flawed the first time it's $47 for the blade shipped, 40 for the sheath, and 10-15 for the sharpener.

No it won't "break the bank", but it does add cost to a product that already hasn't got a lot of wiggle room.

If I sell it for $100 then I basically get $2.40/hr for the 10 hours of work I put into it. So $24 profit becomes $17.
 
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