Recommendation? Knife testing

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Feb 18, 2016
Messages
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As most of you know I'm very new to this (have yet to actually complete a Knife) one of my biggest issues is seeing how other people treat their knives. It's not an axe, prybar, screw driver, hammer, or anything of the sort. Yet alot of Knife people seem to expect this out of their knives. Truly bugs me.
So with that what do YOU do to test your knives to make sure they van withstand abuse.
Probably my biggest worry is that the knife won't be able to hold up to the craziness people expect from them.
Thoughts?
 
likely better off telling people what to reasonably expect from one of your knives and temper their enthusiasm on prying open up-armor humvee doors or whatnot. here's how i test my knives:
1. decide what the intended purpose for the knife will be.
2. design a knife to do that particular task
3. do that task a whole bunch with said knife until i am satisfied i can't make this specific knife do said task any better.
4. send the knife out in the world and see what people like and don't
5. fix it
6. repeat.
 
likely better off telling people what to reasonably expect from one of your knives and temper their enthusiasm on prying open up-armor humvee doors or whatnot. here's how i test my knives:
1. decide what the intended purpose for the knife will be.
2. design a knife to do that particular task
3. do that task a whole bunch with said knife until i am satisfied i can't make this specific knife do said task any better.
4. send the knife out in the world and see what people like and don't
5. fix it
6. repeat.

I can dig it.
This is one reason I was to get into liner lock and frame locks
 
I can dig it.
This is one reason I was to get into liner lock and frame locks
Don't expect them to be treated any different than a fixed blade. I have repaired and replaced a few folders that the owners wittingly abused and were proud of their accomplishments. They each got one NEW knife and were asked to never return with it abused as had been done in the past. I appreciate the fact they were up front about abusing it and I shamed them against my better judgement however they are still customers love their knives and no longer use them in a manner in which they were not intended...

I abuse my prototypes but I also know there are people than can break a bowling ball....So test them until they break so you know what it will take in the outside world...:eek:
 
Yeah can't say I blame you there busto. But at least they're still happy customers!
Folders is 100% my goal for knife making. Thought about pitting a piece if paper with every knife that says don't be dumb it's a knife. It's made to cut and slice.
 
I only make fixed blades, but I test them by hammering them with a sledge through seasoned oak, pry, chop, and whatever is needed for an outdoor blade. Gotta make sure they'll handle whatever someone needs. But they are also used for skinning, and butchering animals. We can all build our knives tailored after our lifestyle and needs. That's why I started building knives, I got tired of not being able to find exactly what I want.
 
I only make fixed blades, but I test them by hammering them with a sledge through seasoned oak, pry, chop, and whatever is needed for an outdoor blade. Gotta make sure they'll handle whatever someone needs. But they are also used for skinning, and butchering animals. We can all build our knives tailored after our lifestyle and needs. That's why I started building knives, I got tired of not being able to find exactly what I want.
One of the beautiful things about this craft. I got into knife making because I couldn't afford a good EDC lol.
 
One of the beautiful things about this craft. I got into knife making because I couldn't afford a good EDC lol.

I got into knife making because I couldn't find a small edc knife I liked lol. Still haven't gained the skills to make it. But soon......

You should clearly state to customers that your knife is not a pry bar, hammer, etc. but you should do your best to make that knife to be able to hold up to any situation it's put through even prying, hammering, etc,...... everything but the dishwasher. Lol. :) just my .02 cents.

Daniel.
 
If you plan to issue a written warranty I would suggest you read a few written by other manufacturers to be familiar with words and phrases that protect you and the end user. Today's society will look for a loophole and with the right shyster lawyer you could end up with a huge debt due to user negligence!!

Testing is OUR responsibility to ensure we are producing a quality product we can stand behind should it fail we would know what it takes to make it fail.
 
If you plan to issue a written warranty I would suggest you read a few written by other manufacturers to be familiar with words and phrases that protect you and the end user. Today's society will look for a loophole and with the right shyster lawyer you could end up with a huge debt due to user negligence!!

Testing is OUR responsibility to ensure we are producing a quality product we can stand behind should it fail we would know what it takes to make it fail.
And I completely agree with this.
I could make nothing but .250 3v edc type blades and not really worry TOO much.
But I guess just because I HAVEN'T made and tested my knives so I really don't know what they can or can't do. I think that's my worry is just the lack of unknown.
I plan to fully test them and give them to friends to beat the hell out of also.
Probably just over thinking things.

That's why I was wondering what kind of test you do
 

Check this video testing a Carothers Field Knife with Nathans Delta heat treat of 3V
 
That's crazy. Nathan is one of the reasons I wanna try 3v. I've read alot about it and from what I've read it's my favorite steel
 
I make kitchen knives and expect folks to use them properly. I do say in write up that the knife should be used on a plastic or wood cutting board, is not made to cut frozen food or bone, and will rust if not dried after use. my test is after hand sharpening, the blade should easily push cut newspaper at tip, mid blade and heel. will also shave smoothly. watch these tests of 1.2519
. I don't use it that soft. 1.2519 works great at Rc64-65.
 
The real reason behind those durability demonstration videos we make is simply to prove the heat treat tweaks we've made to 3V to reduce the chippy mushy edge hasn't spoiled the durability of 3V. Our HT didn't make it tougher, it's like that "out of the box" it made it hold an edge better in rough use by reducing issues that cause some of the edge stability shortcomings so common in modern "super steels".

3V is both tougher and has better abrasion resistance than simple steel, but it tends to lose that edge in the form of micro chipping and edge roll when used hard, which is a pretty major problem in a knife designed to be used hard. Hence the need for an optimized HT, and it takes real, repeatable and meaningful testing to optimize a heat treat.

Those videos are not the testing. They're the demonstration. The testing is more repeatable and meaningful, but pretty boring for a video.

I've posted my development testing process in the past and don't feel the need to repeat it. But I guarantee it, if you're using a complex steel, there is going to be some low-hanging-fruit and some not-so-low-hanging-fruit, if you can control your test variables and make a matrix of your process variables, anyone can dial in an optimal HT. Things to consider are times and temps (duh) material condition going into HT, and the timing and types of steps. Something I've learned are there are some rules of thumb that seem to apply almost universally, and there are assumptions you might form after a while that don't hold true with every alloy. Every time I try to optimize an alloy I'm surprised by something I didn't expect. It's helpful to have a good understanding of metallurgy as it applies to heat treat of steel, but it's equally important to experiment, take good notes, and control variables so you really know what you're looking at and not running in circles. A small lab grade oven, a good RC tester, a real cryo setup and the means to wet grind accurate test sample geometry is very helpful to maximizing your signal to noise ratio.

The actual cut tests are designed to evaluate edge stability. Things like wear resistance are largely "built in" to the steel and won't change much. Your tests should be both meaningful and repeatable and as objective as possible. I inspect the edge under bright light and magnification after the cuts and compare to control samples run through the same media at the same time. Don't fall into the trap of cutting a bunch of rope and forming an opinion just from that. You need to cut rope or cardboard or leather, but you also need to carve and chop hardwood and things harder than hardwood to really evaluate edge stability, and run control samples through with it in order to form meaningful judgments. And edge stability is where knives go dull in real use, and it's the one area that's really hard for the industry to measure.

Chopping through concrete with a 4 pound hammer actually can tell you something. In a steel like 3V that has a lath martensite range and a plate martensite range, those hammer blows cause a different kind of failure, depending on the condition of the martensite (not just the hardness). So that little demonstration can actually be genuinely meaningful if you've done it enough and have a "data set" because you'll see when you've overdone it and put too much carbon in solution because it freakin breaks...
 
The real reason behind those durability demonstration videos we make is simply to prove the heat treat tweaks we've made to 3V to reduce the chippy mushy edge hasn't spoiled the durability of 3V. Our HT didn't make it tougher, it's like that "out of the box" it made it hold an edge better in rough use by reducing issues that cause some of the edge stability shortcomings so common in modern "super steels".

3V is both tougher and has better abrasion resistance than simple steel, but it tends to lose that edge in the form of micro chipping and edge roll when used hard, which is a pretty major problem in a knife designed to be used hard. Hence the need for an optimized HT, and it takes real, repeatable and meaningful testing to optimize a heat treat.

Those videos are not the testing. They're the demonstration. The testing is more repeatable and meaningful, but pretty boring for a video.

I've posted my development testing process in the past and don't feel the need to repeat it. But I guarantee it, if you're using a complex steel, there is going to be some low-hanging-fruit and some not-so-low-hanging-fruit, if you can control your test variables and make a matrix of your process variables, anyone can dial in an optimal HT. Things to consider are times and temps (duh) material condition going into HT, and the timing and types of steps. Something I've learned are there are some rules of thumb that seem to apply almost universally, and there are assumptions you might form after a while that don't hold true with every alloy. Every time I try to optimize an alloy I'm surprised by something I didn't expect. It's helpful to have a good understanding of metallurgy as it applies to heat treat of steel, but it's equally important to experiment, take good notes, and control variables so you really know what you're looking at and not running in circles. A small lab grade oven, a good RC tester, a real cryo setup and the means to wet grind accurate test sample geometry is very helpful to maximizing your signal to noise ratio.

The actual cut tests are designed to evaluate edge stability. Things like wear resistance are largely "built in" to the steel and won't change much. Your tests should be both meaningful and repeatable and as objective as possible. I inspect the edge under bright light and magnification after the cuts and compare to control samples run through the same media at the same time. Don't fall into the trap of cutting a bunch of rope and forming an opinion just from that. You need to cut rope or cardboard or leather, but you also need to carve and chop hardwood and things harder than hardwood to really evaluate edge stability, and run control samples through with it in order to form meaningful judgments. And edge stability is where knives go dull in real use, and it's the one area that's really hard for the industry to measure.

Chopping through concrete with a 4 pound hammer actually can tell you something. In a steel like 3V that has a lath martensite range and a plate martensite range, those hammer blows cause a different kind of failure, depending on the condition of the martensite (not just the hardness). So that little demonstration can actually be genuinely meaningful if you've done it enough and have a "data set" because you'll see when you've overdone it and put too much carbon in solution because it freakin breaks...
Hey man thank you for replying and giving a great insight to it.
I honestly planned on letting the "pros" do the HT. I know a bunch of you bladesmiths out there do your own and like you Nathan have it down to a sweet science.
Just don't know if all that is for me.
If I was to dabble in 3v where would you reccomend I send it out for ht? Probably something I'm going to have to test myself
 
In my opinion, tests must be made considering what the knife should do. So a second of the type of blade will have to be different tests. For a hunting knife, I first perform hardness tests, cutting sisal rope, if that is satisfactory then hand over the knife to professional hunters for field trials. This last test for me is the most important, in addition to testing the steel is tested the knife in its entirety, the ergonomics of the handle, and so on. The best steel without a good handle will give rise to a knife that may well cuts but which is unusable.
My two cent.
 
The real reason behind those durability demonstration videos we make is simply to prove the heat treat tweaks we've made to 3V to reduce the chippy mushy edge hasn't spoiled the durability of 3V. Our HT didn't make it tougher, it's like that "out of the box" it made it hold an edge better in rough use by reducing issues that cause some of the edge stability shortcomings so common in modern "super steels".

3V is both tougher and has better abrasion resistance than simple steel, but it tends to lose that edge in the form of micro chipping and edge roll when used hard, which is a pretty major problem in a knife designed to be used hard. Hence the need for an optimized HT, and it takes real, repeatable and meaningful testing to optimize a heat treat.

Those videos are not the testing. They're the demonstration. The testing is more repeatable and meaningful, but pretty boring for a video.

I've posted my development testing process in the past and don't feel the need to repeat it. But I guarantee it, if you're using a complex steel, there is going to be some low-hanging-fruit and some not-so-low-hanging-fruit, if you can control your test variables and make a matrix of your process variables, anyone can dial in an optimal HT. Things to consider are times and temps (duh) material condition going into HT, and the timing and types of steps. Something I've learned are there are some rules of thumb that seem to apply almost universally, and there are assumptions you might form after a while that don't hold true with every alloy. Every time I try to optimize an alloy I'm surprised by something I didn't expect. It's helpful to have a good understanding of metallurgy as it applies to heat treat of steel, but it's equally important to experiment, take good notes, and control variables so you really know what you're looking at and not running in circles. A small lab grade oven, a good RC tester, a real cryo setup and the means to wet grind accurate test sample geometry is very helpful to maximizing your signal to noise ratio.

The actual cut tests are designed to evaluate edge stability. Things like wear resistance are largely "built in" to the steel and won't change much. Your tests should be both meaningful and repeatable and as objective as possible. I inspect the edge under bright light and magnification after the cuts and compare to control samples run through the same media at the same time. Don't fall into the trap of cutting a bunch of rope and forming an opinion just from that. You need to cut rope or cardboard or leather, but you also need to carve and chop hardwood and things harder than hardwood to really evaluate edge stability, and run control samples through with it in order to form meaningful judgments. And edge stability is where knives go dull in real use, and it's the one area that's really hard for the industry to measure.

Chopping through concrete with a 4 pound hammer actually can tell you something. In a steel like 3V that has a lath martensite range and a plate martensite range, those hammer blows cause a different kind of failure, depending on the condition of the martensite (not just the hardness). So that little demonstration can actually be genuinely meaningful if you've done it enough and have a "data set" because you'll see when you've overdone it and put too much carbon in solution because it freakin breaks...
Nathan,
Thanks for you response. The video was posted to show what a properly built and heat treated blade could withstand under more than casual field/yardwork. I realize there was a lot of in house testing with more substantial abuse before you were satisfied it could perform to your expectations.
Thanx
Busto
 
So with that what do YOU do to test your knives to make sure they van withstand abuse.
Probably my biggest worry is that the knife won't be able to hold up to the craziness people expect from them.

I don't perform such testing because none of my knives are designed to be abused.

My testing is based on the blade's intended function rather than abusive scenarios.
 
I don't perform such testing because none of my knives are designed to be abused.

My testing is based on the blade's intended function rather than abusive scenarios.

True, but even clacking against a cutting board will test the edge stability of your heat treat choices. I think edge stability is even more important in a kitchen knife. I'm not advocating destructive testing for everyone, I'm arguing for comparative edge stability testing. In my opinion the destructive tests simply validates that our tweaks didn't cause unexpected issues. Sometimes they do.
 
I appreciate everyone's input. I plan on making smaller (under 8in OAL) EDC knives. That's why I was worried about the type of destruction they would be able to take
 
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