Knife throwing at the Olympics

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Patte Gauche

Joined
Mar 11, 2000
Messages
97
All,

OK here's a twist subject on a fantasy theme:

If knife throwing was to be a standardized Olympic event with a standardized knife design, what would that design be? Consider all issues of length, weight, material, edges, handle, shape etc. The concept would be for all competitors to use the same knife design in order to test skill not equipment.

what do you say?
 
I'll take a stab (pun intended) at it...

In regular good ol' backyard throwing and to some extent in competition throwing, we have the freedom to modify our knives to our liking. Plus, there is a wide range of styles to choose from. In an event such as the Olympics, the equipment is standard and we must adapt ourselves to it. Some people like heavy knives, some like light. Some prefer to throw from the handle, some from the blade and some from both. Plus all the other variables. I think that a good, level playing field would be as follows... Knife would be 10 inches long and weigh 10 oz. It would be a leaf design (symetrical on both sides of center). It would be made of one solid piece of steel, with a handle end (no handle material) and a blade end (no edges sharp enough to cut, but a good point). Competition would consist of mandatory handle throws from 3 meters and blade throws from 5 meters. I think that would force a lot of concentration on technique. Target would be a 2"x 2" diamond, within a 3.5" circle. Two points for a diamond hit and one point for the circle. A one point deduction for sticks outside the circle and for bounces (Hey, this is the OLYMPICS!). That's my opinion and I'm sticking (pun once again intended) to it!

RR
 
I would like to see the sport adopt a more conventional knife design, rather than a dedicated throwing style. How about a single-edged spearpoint 10" long and 8 oz in weight? It should have a normally-sharpened point and edge. The grip should be thin, slightly-roughened micarta to provide a positive grip and keep the weight down.

I would not specify any particular throwing technique. It would be interesting to see which methods proved most effective in level competition.

I suggest a range of 10 meters. That should be far enough to differentiate between skilled throwers without making strength too big an issue. This should be primarily a contest of skill, after all.

I would use an 12" circular target with concentric rings. Set it against 1" thick pine as a backstop. The entire setup would have to be replaced for each round.

A round would consist of six throws. Throws would be scored for distance from the center of the target to the point of the knife. Each knife would be scored and removed before the next throw. The lowest cumulative distance for all six throws would win the round. Any throw that missed the target or failed to stick would count as 12".

--Bob Q
 
This is a VIRGIN topic for me. I know zero about the art of knife throwing. I would find it exciting to watch the very best compete for Gold and glory. As to the throwing knife, I have no idea as to the specs that make a better knife. I would rather go with making the thrower the better MAN. I would want to be very HUNGRY for the top pedestal. second place would be, well, SECOND place. I would NOT view this as a hand-grenade throw, so if you do not nail it and WIN; Silver just means you "participated".
The Man MUST be dedicated to the art. He must be a man, or Women if they had a men's throwing event and a women's throwing event, absolutely comitted and dedicated to throwing straight and true. BUT, must NEVER be a sore loser and forget the compassion of others he/she competes against. Yeah, you gotta wanna win, but if you just are not the best when the time comes, you BETTER be able to suck it up and shake the winner's hand with a "two-hand" hand-shake and MEAN it.
When the Olympics arrive, whatever you have picked as your tools, you must be confident in. You cannot look at another competitor and start to think you might be challenged due to some technical aspect of the throwing knife. You MUST maintain the absolute inner confidence that you ARE the best man with the BEST throwing knives.
Then as you stand there, witness to the entire world, you must have that concentration to drown out the fact that you are ON-STAGE!!!!! Take the deep breaths, GET THAT MINDSET.....and throw for GOLD ONLY!!!!!wolf
 
Well, it would have to support the diversity of styles out there, so here's my thought on how to fill that:

Probably use either 1095 or 5160, something that can be had reasonably cheaply anywhere in the world (that I'M aware of, at least)

10-14" OAL

Single-edged design, either a very shallow (sharp) spearpoint, or a clip-point/bowie design, weight between 12 and 18 ounces.

Only sharpened to the extent that it will enable sticking; Anodized or textured, however, to simulate the actual bevels/edge of knife.

The throwing alley would be four feet wide, and marked out at 10, 15, and 30 feet. The actual event would entail two rounds of throws from each mark, and each round could be thrown blade or handle, as long as the round was consistent within itself (i.e., once you start a round throwing one way, you have to stick with it for the whole round).

Of course, there would be caging or netting (a la the hammer throw) for safety all around the target, which would be a 3'x4.5' pallet of pine 2x4 ends, 8" thick for safety and durability. Standard competition bull's-eye would be used, and scoring would be as normal, per AKTA rules (at least to start, until rules could be agreed upon).


These are my thoughts...any opinions?
:D
 
I agree that the type of knife would have to be standaradized. For competition I always like the standard "Robin Hood" type of competition. Each thrower gets their own target. Start at say 5 meters than extend the range until there is a clear winner. First one to not get a stick in the target bullseye loses. 3 knives thrown per given distance. At least one "moving target" stage would be interesting too.
 
I have been trying to read just the technical specs for a "superb" throwing knife. My goal was to sit here and add another post more in line with the question so I COULD WIN!!!!!
Nope, I really am not READY to give you experts a "one-knife fits all" perspective.
Why?, because I just do not believe someone at the OLYMPIC level needs a technological edge (no pun)in order to throw for GOLD. In everything I have read in order to come back here and add what I had hoped would be the "knife-winning post" I discovered that the BOTTOM-LINE is "mindset".
So, I am not able to answser this question. Just as a group of shooters approach the firing line in competition, the guy with the $10,000 one of a kind, made for THAT shooter firearm just may not give the man the edge over the Man standing there with a pretty much stock firearm that he has maybe a Grand into. It is just WHO IS MORE HUNGRY to win, and who is the better shot. When the competition is over and everyone is looking at their scores, I am looking at the idiot who fired the 10 grand piece and has every excuse in the book, ALL which are the GUN'S fault. No fault is his. The winner, who fired with his one grand stock firearm is getting the stares because he has two major things going for him. ONE, his heart and soul was squarely into thye competition, His lust to win was in his heart, not in his wallet. The SECOND, and most important issue: In the end, all the bells and whistles cannot make a winner out of one who does not have the true desire and MINDSET to win.........I hope you understand this. I will be visiting this place more often. This sport seems like an awesome outlet. I have a LOT of learning to do.......wolf;)
 
wolfmann601,

Yours is a very astute observation and opinion, right on the money for what my original intention was.

At an Olympic level of play, we do want to only test skill not equipment. On the other hand the equipment should be, in the least acceptable, if not of highest quality.

So the problem asked here is to define a single specification that is of high usefulness and great acceptability to be used by all Olympians in an effort to eliminate the equipment variable.
This is not a question of targets or distance etc., just what might be a good all-round spec. for an Olympic thrower. What you throw at, from where, and how is the next set of questions.
 
I'm not sure I understand just what you are looking for. Variation in equipment has been an element in advancing every sport I can think of. One wants to set the standard in such a way that there is some room for variation, and within that latitude, you test not only skill but hardware innovation.

It is also the case that skill depends to some degree on hardware. Two competitors can each hit a 2" bullseye from say 20+ feet, but one only with knives of 13+ inches weighing 13+ ounces, while the other can do it only with somewhat smaller and lighter knives. Why not allow each of their respective talents to shine with the equipment that works best for them? I'm not saying one should have no standard, but give it a little flexibility.
 
WOW!!!! No way I can answer THAT at my level:( :( I am JUST starting to read about this sport. As a "Northern New Englander", I have had many opportunities to be enthralled by Axe-throwers at Stihl lumberjack competitions. I remain still JUST a spectator. ONE un-informed spectator. I can give you a thirty page "thesis" on Mindset, winning-attitudes, drive and desire, the will to survive and THROWING for GOLD!~~!~!. I just cannot give you any info YET concerning WHAT to throw.
I have a lot of life let in this human shell. So I am going thru the archives and I am really starting to LEARN exactly what KNIFE-THROWING is. I hope to return with a much broader understanding as now you infected me with the bug!!!!!;) :D
So, I am now a lurker HERE. But as far as the Free-knife contest, I do not have THAT type of knowledge yet to participate. Do this again NEXT olympics and maybe I can give you "experts" a run for the "GOLD", ( hopefully another NEW custom throwing knife).
For Now, I am HERE, silently, learning............wolf
 
I'm with Matt.

Why standardize the equipment when you can standardize the competition?

Eventually, the equipment and techniques will optimize to fit the contest and begin to look outwardly very similar. But, you want to leave the window open for innovation in both areas. We can expect Olypic caliber athletes and high tech engineering to take knife throwing to levels that have never even been imagined before.

n2s
 
not2sharp,

Again another response that is astute and absolutely correct. The design of an Olympic throwing knife or hawk is not all that important. What is important at this level is that all competitors use the same. A design could change every four years, as you stated it will be virtually the same as a single design spec will eventually surface as the best.

What I am interested in is making a first go-around at defining knife throwing at the olympics, to get some concensus.
 
Patte,
This is getting DANGEROUS!!!!! I am starting to read and study the art and science of knife throwing and REALLY ENJOYING IT!!!!!:D :D
I bet I can answer this question, not a winning answer, but non-the-less, far more articulate in about a year. There is far more than meets the eye. But in the end, it all STILL boils down to the thrower. Does he HAVE the DRIVE, DESIRE and HUNGER for gold? Will he dedicate his days to perfecting his throw, irrespective of what type of knife, in order to compete with the WORLD's BEST?
Thank you for opening another venue in the world of knives. I will now visit this forum daily and when I have enough basic knowledge [whew, that will be awhile!!!] I will ask you and the others what is the best throwing set to be a NEWBIE in training....THANKS.....wolf
 
The reason I feel the equipment should be standardized is to avoid the "arms race" mentality so pervasive in sports like IPSC.
 
My concern in defining the standard throwing knife fairly narrowly is not so much to avoid the "arms race", although I'm not sure that's a bad idea, but to avoid the tendency of high-level sports to drift too far away from their origins. I would hate to see "knife throwing" turn into a sport where the objects thrown were no longer recognizable as knives. ;)

I also think that fixing the form of the knife would avoid overspecialization of athletes. It should remain primarily a game of skill and not strength, for instance.

Just thinking out loud...

--Bob Q
 
WOW, this is intense. It would be like posting on another thread "what is the BEST knife for Police work". I am certain that there would be 20 or more ABSOLUTELY "the best" knife for LE to select from. So, here we are......There is about five that I would suggest based on my just started to research knowledge of this topic.
NO MATTER what I would suggest, it still boils down to the individual. If you standardized knives, 50% would be Ok with it, 30% would NOT be Ok with it and 20% would HATE it and REFUSE to comply with it, and probably NOT participate in the event. I guess that weight and length would be the ONLY standard from which to establish a valid OLYMPIC ALLOWABLE throwing knife. From that point, the different steels, technology, distribution of weight, balance, blade style would be up to the INDIVIDUAL, staying within the established length/weight rules of the Olympic Rules Folks.
It would then be a true contest of MAN Vs, MAN with individualism allowed to some extent, just like Ski's, Tobagons (spell}, rifles, heck even Ice skates, Hockey sticks and gloves. There are established guidelines, but room for individuality.
That IS the only way this could be pulled off and I think it would be a BLAST to watch the world's best. Would it NOT be KEWL to see some 50 pounds overweight, beer drinking, HUMAN...AMAZE people all over the world by and thru his ability to throw a knife as accurately as a Master marksman can fire a rifle!!!!!!:D wolf
 
well, now I have the bug. YOU HAD to go and get me reading about this art. Like I do not have enough to learn in the world of "just knives". Now, I am reading on taking a finely made "custom" knife and THROWING IT!!!!!!!, At first, this seemed like an insane thing to do. Now that I have started to study this topic, WHAT a BLAST!!!!!
Well, I plan on winning this knife, so I am gonna research some more. BUT, no matter how much I do read, my final "jeopary answer" is still gonna be the participants, not the tools. But, you made the rules, and I want a Throwing knife!!!!!!;) ;) wolf
PS.. Kinda like Tomahawak throwing quite abit also. That is an amazing mix of physcial talent and perfected craftmanship......
 
Beware: long post:eek:
Knives would be similar, but not the same. Think archery...all the arrows are similar, but not the same(both for one competetor, and between competitors). Each competitor shall provide at least 5 knives, with up to 3 spares, should one break. Competitors will be able to 'trade in' spares between rounds (in case a tip breaks, or is dulled, etc)
Each knife shall be between 10 and 14 inches in length, and between X and X oz weight. Made of steel. Each knife shall have one point on the pointy end, and one non-pointy tang end(no throwing stars). Knives may be single or double edged, and may or may not be *sharp*, but must have a blade(no throwing spikes--maybe a seperate comp.) Handle may be scales, cord wrapped, or plain steel tang, but must be the same for all the competitor's knives. (this is to keep designs within reasonable parameters, but allow for engineering improvements)
Each of these knives shall be reasonably the same. (within 1/4" of length of each other, within 2 or so oz? of each other, blade/handle ratio the same for each knife, etc) (No special knives for different ranges.)
It would be advantageous for the competitor to make each knife *exactly* the same, so they have that much more control.
Rounds shall consist of 5 throws at 5 bullseyes (to prevent knife hitting knife) equally spaced on an end-grain pine target, to be changed after each round. Bullseyes would be something like a 1/2" circle in a 2" circle in a 6" circle on a 2.5'x 2.5' target in front of a backstop.
If they start a round using handle/blade throw, they use handle/blade throw for the rest of the round. They may switch for the next round.
Accuracy comp:
One round at 5yds, 10yds, 15, 20.
Masure the distance from the center of the bulls-eye to the nearest part of the knife stuck in the target, add all the distances up, and the person with the lowest score wins.
Distance comp: start at 25 yds, each person throws 5. move back 5 yds after each round. Each competitor must stick 2 of 5 in the 2.5'x2.5' square at each range to continue the next 5yds.
 
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