Knife vs. Spear Scenario

Fire hardens wood by driving out the moisture. Think about cutting into a green limb vs. a dead dry one. The dead dry one is much harder to cut (stiffer and more brittle too). I've haven't done it yet myself but if I did, I'd avoid the hottest part of the fire to prevent burning, go slow and check often until it looks pretty much like pict's pic in post #11.
 
I would make a fire hardended spear, about my height, maybee a little more, and keep it in my right hand like a walking stick.

i would keep my knife in my left hand, secured with a lanyard so as not to drop or loose it. This gives you some options. If you drop one you can counter attack with the other. the walking stick gives you more stability, making it a little less likely you will be nocked onto your stomach if attacked; you have a better chance of falling onto your back and getting a clearer shot at the lion.

Wraping a long scarf around your neck couldnt hurt either. A big bunch of padding may buy you a second or two to get your shot in before the lion rips off your face.
 
The technique I have always used for fire hardening a point is to cut a very blunt point onto the thick end of the green sapling. The bark is stripped off the shaft.

I make a fire with a deep bed of coals and shove about a foot of the shaft under the coals burying it completely. Turn the shaft slowly to get an even burn. Every so often pull it out and scrape off the char by rubbing it against a rock. Keep putting it into the coals and turning the shaft slowly. The tip of the spear should be in the center of the fire. That will heat/char faster and will result in a long tapered, even point as you rub off the char.

The only problems I've ever encountered is that sometimes the shaft will split slightly. This is no big deal. The point will be very hard and sharp enough. If you really want to get fancy you can knife cut a chisel point or carve it into a long three sided point, very sharp and sturdy.

The cool thing about using the fire itself to carve the point by charring the wood is that you don't need a knife at all, just a fire and a rock. Mac
 
smokelaw1 said:
While the spear is a more effective weapon for creating distance (usually) vs a human threat, and would likely be safer at 6 feet than a knife vs a mountain lion, one has to deal with the fact that often, the first one sees of a mountian lion (ambush predator) is during the attack. It would do one well to take to mind the possibility that it would be too late and too fast to take advantage of the spear, and you may not be able to get the blade between you and your attacker.
Perhaps a shorter pole? Or, the way I would do it, is to use the knife to fashion a very sharp improvised spear, and then you would have both.
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I couldn't agree with you more. It is a fact that mountain lions are extremely good hunters and very good at being able to hide. So, most likely, once someone realizes the presence of a mountain lion it will be when his teeth will be deep in that person's neck. Aside from this however, under the circumstances one DOESN'T want to lose their knife! Therefore, I would strongly recommend that the knife kept on the person and not attached to any pole. As you have very well stated, the person could use their knife to make an improvised spear completely out of wood. If you burn the tip of it, it will become hard and thus easier to penetrate.
 
S. Brown said:
There was a guy hiking up Devils Head a few years back who was attacked by a mountain lion. He had a Victrinox Swiss Army knife and that was it. He stabbed it in the stomach and dug his thumb into its eye and the mountain lion actually ran off.
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Although I like Victorinox Swiss Army knives, I would not chose this as my main knife carry mostly for stabbing with it. There are a few models of their entire line-up that come with a locking blade and for the rest that they don't in stabbing actions it is very easy for such a knife to close on the user's hand and cut him / her. If you add to it the physical shape of the tip of the blade of every Victorinox SAK I am aware of, then this is in no way recommended as a knife that can serve for self defence and mostly for stabbing. I have read about such an occurence some time ago but I don't remember where. A guy tried to defend himself with a SAK and he ended up cutting his fingers and suffering severe other injuries from the attack. Of course, it is much better than fighting for your life with your bare hands. This is why though we need to be proactive and not just reactive and that goes also for our outfit. Nevertheless, one should consider that there is at least one good reason for which lots of folders come with a locking mechanism nowadays.
 
g_moutafis said:
Although I like Victorinox Swiss Army knives, I would not chose this as my main knife carry mostly for stabbing with it. There are a few models of their entire line-up that come with a locking blade and for the rest that they don't in stabbing actions it is very easy for such a knife to close on the user's hand and cut him / her. If you add to it the physical shape of the tip of the blade of every Victorinox SAK I am aware of, then this is in no way recommended as a knife that can serve for self defence and mostly for stabbing.
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If he had a larger knife that had a locking blade on him, I'm sure he would've used it. The SAK was probably his EDC. I doubt he knew he was going to be attacked by a mountain lion on his hike up the Devil's Head trail. He probably was not sitting around thinking "what is a good knife that is recommended for fighting mountain lions so I can pull it out of thin air and stab him with it" he was probably thinking "oh shit...what will hurt this thing?" The answer, of course, was his pocket knife which can cut, not some BM 710 he did not have.
 
I remember reading about the attack in which the guy used a SAK to defend himself. It was published in Readers Digest. In the photo that accompanied the article you could clearly see what looked like a Large CS Voyager clipped to the guys pocket...LIVE and learn, die and teach. Mac
 
my suggestion is both lol easiest way even easier than fire hardening is to carry the CS bushman a cool medium sized one piece knife with a open tapered handle so you can turn it into a spear with very little difficulty.
 
I have actualy been part of a cougar encounter. About 4 years ago I was up early to go on a hike around mid-summer. I gathered up my gear and went out back to harness up my trusty pack-goat, Buster. In the process of this I hear a low growl, similar to what a very angry alley cat makes but much deeper and more viseral. Never herd it come up, not the faintest idea where it came from. It ether covered the ground from the forest to my farm house like lightning or it was under the porch the whole time. I stood there, looking at its magesty and thinking, "game over man, game over."

It struck out and grabbed, it was the sound of my goats snapping bones that brought me out of the shock. From this point the animal was down to its natural way, I didnt even exist to it anymore. Backing towards the fence and then vaulting over and running the 15 or so meters into the house, the cougar didnt even lift an eyelid. I came back outside and the goat pen looked like a butcher shop, Filling the cat with .30-06 didnt help that situation.

Later on the conservation officers came by and examined the sitiuation. They explained to me that the strange weather patters have messed with deer populations and this cat had not eaten in some time, driving it to attempt an attack on live stock. That summer the sheep farm a kilometer over lost 3 and a 2nd cat was tree'ed by coon-hounds and shot after it was spotted stalking around a horse barn. Havent seen one since then, but it was a wild summer.
 
A friend of my girlfriends was attacked by a mountain lion in CA while camping.
Messed her up bad. Blind in one eye, scars on her face etc.
The group was off hiking somewhere and she went back to camp.
Luckily someone was shortly behind her and had a knife.
Besides stabbing it, I'm not sure on the exact ending besides getting
it off of her. I guess they found it dead later and it had some sort
of disease. Missing patches of hair, really skinny. Probably desperate
and deranged.

Back on topic.... if I could only have one or the other (both would be best)
I'd choose the spear.
 
S. Brown said:
If he had a larger knife that had a locking blade on him, I'm sure he would've used it. The SAK was probably his EDC. I doubt he knew he was going to be attacked by a mountain lion on his hike up the Devil's Head trail. He probably was not sitting around thinking "what is a good knife that is recommended for fighting mountain lions so I can pull it out of thin air and stab him with it" he was probably thinking "oh shit...what will hurt this thing?" The answer, of course, was his pocket knife which can cut, not some BM 710 he did not have.
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I am sure that, as you pointed out, he was not sitting around thinking "what is a good knife that is recommended for fighting mountain lions so I can pull it out of thin air and stab him with it". That is why one needs to be proactive. This is the essence of planning ahead of things. Of course, given this was the only knife he had, he tried to defend himself with it. But one needs to know what the limitations of their equipment are. He shouldn't have ONLY this knife with him while hiking over there in the first place. Having a SAK as your only EDC in the city may work fine but, hiking up Devils Head just with it is a totally different story.
 
I beg to differ; an SAK is enough knife for 99% of all hikers.
You are more likely to be struck by lightning while hiking than to mix it up with a mountain lion.
Enjoy!
 
I f a mountain lion attacks you and all you have is a knife..(no matter what kind) that's what I call a brothel scenario....no matter what you're getting screwed. I agree that the chance of being of being attacked by a wild animal are extremely minute (other than mosquitoes) and i see a knife as a last last LAST resort weapon I've done a fair bit of knife training alot of it reality based and if both people have a knife there is a real good chance both are headed to the hospital or the morgue and that's a person.... a predatory animal of the smae weight with an aresenal of weapons honed by thousands of years of evolution at there disposal that's a different ball of wax...If it was something I was worried about..I'd pack a little firepower if I didn't have any maybe I'd make a spear....but I'd also be sure to make a heck of a lot of noise.
 
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